Economic growth stalls in first quarter
Do you think we can keep running out of control trade debt and not worry about our economy?
MSNBC-WASHINGTON – The economy nearly stalled in the first quarter with growth slowing to a pace of just 0.6 percent. That was the worst three-month showing in over four years.
The new reading on the gross domestic product, released by the Commerce Department Thursday, showed that economic growth in the January-through-March quarter was much weaker. Government statisticians slashed by more than half their first estimate of a 1.3 percent growth rate for the quarter.
The main culprits for the downgrade: the bloated trade deficit and businesses cutting investment in supplies of the goods they hold in inventories.
Actually, 4% unemployment is referred to as “full employment” and thus, 85% when there is 15% unemployed is correct since it only refers to the people eligible for employment. That is like the reverse. We have never had 4.2% unemployed since we only have about 155 million eligible for employment and only about 147 million including government employees so we currently have a 50% unemployment rate if you are going to include everyone.
But, I did get your point. Not a good one but I did get it. Let me be more clear then. 85% of the work eligible work force or 80% when unemployment was 20% etc.
Again, you need to relax and enjoy life a little more. Time is short. Try some anger management courses.
Jan,
I don’t post sources for what I consider common knowledge or for conclusion drawn from common knowledge by good logic.
MD
Now, to help you close the circle on global warming.
Research the amount of carbon being mined or drilled.
Coal and oil.
That carbon is far below the root systems and is trapped.
Humans dig it out or pump it out of the ground.
Then, in one way or another, humans burn that carbon creating “new carbon dioxide” in the atmosphere.
Prior to pre-industrial society, man did little to change the carbon cycle.
The release of carbon trapped and stored for millions of years beyond the reach of any organic life leads to increased “green house gases” and manmade “global warming.”
All voluntary acts that can be changed.
You’re right, though.
I shouldn’t get so angry when self taught experts portray cow farts and human exhalation as un-natural events based on the opinions of mine engineers and various paid political tools.
In your logic, truth doesn’t need any defenders. And, individuals have no responsibility or power. A hand full of OPINION leaders rule.
Ignorance is bliss, eh?
And,
Jan,
As far as me getting the ‘word’ out, if you don’t believe the UN reports, the reports of various scientific communities, Al Gore, G8 statements, then you’ve already ignored, using your math from employment, “85 percent” of real information.
You’ll keep getting your “facts” from the opinions columns of other.
You’ll keep reporting wacko opinions while pretending to be a voice of reason.
The only way to handle a political tool like you?
Slap them in the face until they snap out of the coma.
You’re a political tool of the anti-global warming crowd. Now that you’ve been outed, what will you do?
Correct all your posts on all the blogs you visit?
Nope.
You’ll continue to attack global warming. You’ll continue to say there is nothing man has done to change the environment. There is nothing man CAN do to change the environment.
Given how much information you ignored to post the opinion crap you’ve used, you have no intelligence, no motiviation to think responsibiy, or maybe you’re paid to spread propaganda by oil companies, energy companies, conservative think tanks, or the GOP.
Now.
A direct question.
You said you have no personal ties to either party.
Do you have any professional ties to a political party, organization, or political cause?
MD
p.s. I don’t expect an honest answer.
No. no ties to any since I am retired now and just enjoying life.
But, I am not anti-global warming. I believe it is happening since it has been happening for 18,000 years. Why should it stop. I just don’t believe we can stop it. It was going on before we had the industrial age and will go on if man completely dies out. It will go on until nature ends it.
We had very high CO2 levels before and we will again. The earth and nature and the solar systems has cycles that are very long as well as some that are short.
We can prepare for global warming but we can’t stop it. Even scientists don’t fully agree on whether we can even significantly alter what is going to happen because the majority of the nations aren’t going to make any real changes and nations like China growing industrial output by 10% or more a year will more than override any cuts in other nations.
There is no consensus on global warming other than it is happening. To say we can change what is happening with man’s efforts is ridiculous. The most, the very best, would be a slowing by a few years in a 100. Nature will make needed changes before man ever has an effect.
It might even make things so bad man becomes almost extinct. That might not be all bad. Those left can start over and maybe do a better job the next time around. After one Super Volcano exploded, they believe the population of the earth dropped to a few thousands or 10’s of thousands.
That can easily happen again. We haven’t had a super volcano errupt for over 600,000 years in the U.S. (not sure about the world). But, if Yellowstone erupted with its usual volume, we could easily lose eveyone west of the Mississippi to ash fallout. There isn’t a thing in the world we can do to stop that if it happens anymore than we can stop global warming. But nature can and some day will and will return us to an ice age of some degree. Whether it is a “mini-ice age” or a larger one, nobody knows but, there is no reason not to expect one as the earth adjusts to changes going on now.
However, regarding the sources. What is logic to you isn’t to most people as you should realize by reading the comments on this forum. Only once you posted detailed information that could be searched for did “your logic” come out. That is not the common thought. As I was searching for your information I found more sites going on about the methane and CO2 from animals and people than anything regarding your view. Thus, for most people, your view is not “logical” because they don’t see any support for it.
The bulk of Americans have no idea of what you are talking about. They aren’t taught to think for themselves any more. So while you think things are logical, they don’t. If you don’t show them in black and white, they have no reason to believe you. They are too tuned to the “talk show hosts” that have other agendas than the full truth.
Just like the garbage about global warming being controlled by man. Speed it up, slow it down, yes. Stop it? Not a chance. It is way too late to even slow it down more than a year or two at the most. With industrial growth in the old Soviet block, India, China, Korea, Vietnam and most of Asia, it will only rapidly get worse regarding emissions.
To tell people they can make it better is just a lie. But, they can prepare for it. We need plans in place so we know exactly what we will do given the different possibilities. What if the oceans rise 2 feet? What do we do then. What will we need if they rise 5 ft? What other low lying areas will be affected.
What if we have more storms, tornadoes, droughts, floods, etc. Each area that previously was “safe” from various acts of nature may be “unsafe” in the future and should know what they will do for disaster coordination when those things change.
The area I just moved from in the mountains was a very wet area with one of the longest continuous stands of ponderosa pine in the U.S. It was settled and logged in the late 1800’s and already shifting weather patterns we moving the moisture out of the area. Tree ring data shows that from that time on, trees were growing much less, lakes in the area dried up, and desert conditions rapidly expanded.
In an area that was belly high grass and some of the largest cattle ranches in the U.S. it is almost all unfit for livestock now. Every decade for a 100 years, it has gotten worse. Yet, that area never really developed any plans for dealing with the changes that were taking place and is one of the poorest areas in the state now.
That is going to happen with Global Warming. Areas that are doing well will change and become wasteland. Wasteland may become productive again, especially Northern areas that were too cold for most crops.
We are wasting time by telling people they can stop this. They can’t. They need to deal with the reality they can’t stop it and prepare for it.
The main agenda with global warming is international wealth redistribution with the buying and selling of credits instead of actually reducing emissions. It is a way to get more government power internationally and to scare people into voting for some people or to make money for some group like those making money off corn-based ethanol instead of better alternatives. It is a scam designed for just about everything except real preparation for what it coming.
Yup, I may be wrong about some aspect of the sources of CO2 but, that doesn’t change the fact it is a scam on the people so some can benefit at the expense of others through the creation of a “crisis” where people voluntarily surrender their freedoms without really knowing what is going to happen anyway.
Jan,
You should follow your own suggestions on enoying life, whatever you have left.
Your view on life is fatalistic.
Mine is not.
You might see a 18,000 year old problem.
That problem if it exists at all has no relavent place in discussions of man made changes in the environment that affect climate.
You choose to ignore man’s impact on the world. You choose to believe you have no power.
Those are your choices.
Enjoy waiting for the inevitability of death.
The scientific and philosophical debate is over.
Mankinds preference for fossil fuels is a controlable factor in the environment.
The use of fossil fuels converted “stored” carbon into carbon dioxide faster than the “environment” could possibly recapture. (the rise in greenhouse gases like CO2)
The depletion of forests, rain forests, and nature further reduced the natural resources to make adjustments to the newly available amount of carbon reintroduced to the system.
The cyclical nature of human agriculture …
If you go back to your own sources, like the Japanese monitoring of global CO2 sources, you will discover seasonal changes in Co2 levels and documentation of unique geographic areas with significant increases in CO2 (before disapation).
The Southern hemisphere has no real “hotspots” of notable increases in carbon dioxide.
You can very easily guess where and when in the Northern Hemisphere CO2 hotspots occur.
And, it’s not around volcanoes, for example.
There is a lag time for change in the environment.
That change can’t happen in your life is enough information for you.
Just not for me, my children, my grandchildren…
Nor is there any giving up of liberty proposed by me or anyone else.
You’re free as an individual to obey the laws or disobey the laws.
You are free to enjoy ignorance.
You are few to do nothing.
You’re free to lie.
Review the social contract and all the implications before whining about freedoms and liberty.
Without the social contract, your life would have been brief and brutal.
I didn’t say man can’t change. I said he won’t. You are not going to stop Eastern Europe, India, China and the other rapidly rising nations using 10% or higher growth in industry to change. Not a chance.
China’s government is totalitarian and will do what they think is needed for economic growth. Inida, just rising out of poverty is similar even with a different government style. The people are getting better off each year and buying more cars using more energy across the nation.
The U.S. will continue its decline and we will become 2nd world nation (I doubt we every become a 3rd world nation). You can’t reverse this trend and as scientists (some) say. The CO2 level is already too high to do anything. It will stay in the atmosphere for many decades and more will be added. We don’t have much of a way to reduce the CO2 in the air (except have more crops and trees and other natural processes that take it out of the Atmosphere to be stored again in the soils and ocean beds.
You have rapid growth in fossil fuel use around the world that exceed any cut backs by any nation. Even if the U.S. started cutting back, it is too late. Those other nations will more than exceed any minor cutback we do.
Regarding hotspots, we only have a relatively few cities over 1 million. China has 70 cities or so that are over a 500,000 and all of them are demanding more fossil fuel use. We have about 10. So, while there demand for fossil fuel is going up a double digit rates, any offsets by our meager population is going to be dwarfed. Even if we were cutting by 10%, they will increase their demand for fossil fuels more than anything we do. The rest of the rapidly growing nations are also demanding more.
Have you seen any plan that will actually cut emissions on a world wide basis? Or are they just “reduce the growth” plans because they won’t get China and India make the same sacrifices.
You really believe we can have an impact? How do you get those government to not more than offset anything the rest of the world does?
We can prepare for it though. Do you believe they are serious when they use corn based ethanol instead of bio-diesel. That process involves a lot of energy to just make it. Then you have extra transportation because our pipelines aren’t up to a grade needed to handle it so we burn even more fossil fuels hauling it.
Do you believe it when they are going to add 67 to 100 million people either directly or by what they can bring in with them, over the next 25-30 years? That means 1/3 more power plants, not less. It means 1/3 more schools, roads, cars, Air Conditioners, Furnaces, etc that need power provide through the use of fossil fuels (unless we go more for nuclear).
Jan,
Man has changed in the past. So I believe man has the capacity for change.
Negative thinkers aside.
Bio-fuels pretty much smoke and mirrors in terms of energy savings. Nor, will those help slow or create change in the environment.
The better question is do you want to have an impact and what kind?
Yes, man has changed. We are changing here. I am not talking about on nation. I am talking about the world and man hasn’t changed for any length of time in the world. There are always nations that will be progressive and others regressive.
There will always be nations that move to dictators and those the move to more democratic nations. But, no nation will rise to the top and stay there. Never has happened and never will because of human nature.
Just like the citizens of this nation are doing things through there representatives that will cause us to implode with debt and loss of standard of living, at the same time there will be nations rising in standard of living.
Some nations that never rise to the top will cycle in a range over the centuries but still they will have peaks and valleys, too.
That is also true of nature. It will eventually repair itself with some very cataclysmic events probably, such as the eruption of a super volcano. However, since it could be thousands of years until that happens, you can’t plan on it solving your problems with the current climate changes.
Again, the amount of CO2 is believed to be at a high enough level already in the atmosphere that given the length of time it stays there, we have probably hundred or more years of warming just on that alone. That is, if it is a leading or lagging factor. Most believe it is a leading factor.
OH.
I see the church reformation, failure of the British Empire, failure of monarchies, the 300 years of European Renaissance capitalism, etc as signs of permanent change. And, that is strictly a Western point of view.
You just see neanderthals.
The decline you project for the United States is or isn’t caused by bad management. Make up your mind.
On the one hand, socialism is destroying the US, on the other it’s inevitable.
Your point of view is a subset of nationalism.
As to climate change, now you’re saying CO2 is rising and has an affect on climate change. …
Nature might not repair itself. It might just purge itself of us. Always the concept of broken and being fixed as a requirement of being broken.
I suggest an entirely different modeling structure for you.
A very bad one from economics.
Supply and Demand curves.
Bad in that market fundamentalists see price as the desired function of the interactions of supply and demand.
I know that demand and supply are not an always interlinking relationship.
Remember Sey’s Law? Supply creates demand.
Generally seem as valid before October 1929. It has some reference today.
No Cadilacs. No demand for Cadilacs. Same for BMW, Benz, etc.
Still a demand for cars, eh?
But when there were no cars, we had no demand for cars.
But, we had a demand for transportation. An, for most of us, a supply of feet.
Realistic estimates of affecting the rising curve on carbon supplies is 30 years. If a workable plan were begun today.
But, don’t you worry. There are enough negative thinkers to prevent humans from taking responsibility for their lives.
(The underlying problem of the USA starts with a rapid depletion of natural resources. We had a supply of cheap natural resources. What we have left is no longer cheap. China has not exploited their cheap surplies, yet. Nor, has Russian. We MUST import finished materials as well as natural materials.”