Giuliani Offers Health Care Plan
Does anyone think this plan will fix our healthcare problems? And if so, please tell us how.
NPR-Republican presidential hopeful Rudy Giuliani on Tuesday offered a consumer-oriented solution to the nation’s health care woes that relies on giving individuals tax credits to purchase private insurance.
Critical to Giuliani’s plan is a $15,000 tax deduction for families to buy private health insurance, instead of getting insurance through employers. Any leftover funds could be rolled over year-to-year for medical expenses.
Campaigning in this first primary state, Giuliani said his goal is to give individuals more control over their health care. The former New York mayor said as more people buy plans, insurers will drop their prices, making insurance affordable to those who lack it now.
It’s pretty worthless. It does nothing for price competetion and you are still going to have to have the $15,000 up front. Why do conservatives think that tax cuts are the solution to every problem? LOL.
Caroline
Let’s see……what will the Edwards and Obama (not to mention Mrs. Bill Clinton)plans do…hmmmmm?
1. Eliminate the tax cuts that have stimulated the economy.
2. Re-distribute wealth as in a socialist society.
3. Make more and more people dependent on the “nanny state.”
4. Put more and more working class Americans in danger of losing their jobs as investment will dry up in short order.
Now let’s see what Giuliani’s plan does;
1. Makes people reliant on themslves instead of government.
2. Keeps government out of our pockets AND our medical records.
3. Actually uses a market-based approach to solving the problem. (imagine that!)
4. Continues the idea of our founders to limit government intervention in our lives.
Hmmmm….I’m not necessarily a Giuliani supporter, but his plan certainly seems better than any Johnrack Obillary plan and a WHOLE lot closer to what the founders had in mind.
Caroline, please “enlighten” all of us by telling us exactly where in the Constitution it says that government will provide health care. I for one would love to know.
VOTE NO on ANYTHING remotely resembling socialized medicine – we’re a Constitutional Republic, NOT a socialist society!
Mac
Do you think the Rudy health plan will fix the problem and how?
Mac,
You are obviously too ignorant about insurance to have a discussion. Are you familiar with the clauses insurance puts in your policies?
Republicans have given us the biggest most intrusive government in our nation’s history. No one believes Republicans when talk about staying out of people’s lives. They already know your health issues. They’ve been listening to your phone calls for years now.
Guiliani’s approach is not market based. It’s a joke. It’s written by someone who hasn’t a clue about the situation today.
Since you are too lazy to look at what the Democrats are offering let me tell you Edwards plan:
1. Keep your insurance
2. Buy into Medicare
3. Buy into the same health insurance plan that the Senators and Representatives have.
Really do you ever check anything out before making stupid comments?
John
The “fix” as you say is NOT to turn it over to government. Medicare is proof-positive of that.
I can’t say whether Rudy’s plan is the answer, but I’m certain the socialized medicine zealots are wrong. Having had first-hand experience with socialized medicine, (I was stationed in Europe for about 14 years)
I can say without reservation that our system is better than theirs. Waiting three or four weeks to see a doctor (and in most cases a PA) is not my idea of a quality medical system.
The answer to the problem lies in the free market and, as Rudy mentioned, tort reform. If you read the link I provided the other day, you’ll know that the number of suits filed against American doctors and medical professionals in general dwarf the rest of the world.
While I believe people should (and do) have the right to sue for medical screw-ups, the vast majority of suits are baseless and cost the American taxpayer BILLIONS annually. Are you aware that more and more pediatricians and even midwives are leaving New Jersey because the malpractice insurance rates are so high they simply can’t afford them? What will THAT do for healthcare in New Jersey?
What Caroline and her ilk don’t get is that free markets are clearly the best solution. Anyone who doubts that need only look at the auto insurance industry. Competition has FORCED these companies to look for newer, cheaper, innovative, and more effective ways to sell their products. Rudy’s plan is similar to that model.
In my view, this comes down to personal responsibility. How many of this “mass” of uninsured can afford Cable TV, cigarettes, regular vacations, new cars, name brand clothing, etc., but seem to be unable to afford health insurance? Caroline may call this “responsibility,” but I’d argue it’s anything but.
VOTE NO! on socialized medicine – It will bankrupt the Nation!
Caroline
My “ignorance” aside, I’m still waiting for that Constitutional reference.
Perhaps you’d care to post that?
Socialism and Government Health Care is NOT the way!
Mac,
Continue to defend the current situation. It’s a real winner! Giuliani is advocating an unfront increase of double, triple or even quadriple what some people are paying now.
Are you aware of the cost of insurance? Obviously now. It would take months of cable payments to make one insurance policy payment. Making that kind of statement shows complete ignorance of the situation on your part.
Keep telling people that their health is a commodity to be bought and sold just like a pack of gum!
You don’t even understand the concept of competition. And you can’t compare auto insurance to health insurance because you can always get auto insurance whereas you can’t get health insurance in many cases. A friend of mine’s sister was diagnosed with cancer as a child. She’s now in her fifties with no recurrence of cancer but is still considered “uninsurable” by the insurance companies.
Keep on defending the special interests. There’s a reason why Democrats have a double point advantage on this issue. People are tired of Republicans who do nothing but make excuses for the special interests.
Caroline
Let me see if I have this straight. You can’t provide that referance I asked for right?
I think I’m seeing the problem now…people should purchase “months of cable” instead of even a short-term health insurance policy. Have I got that right?
So, in effect what you’re saying is that EVERYONE else should pay for YOUR health insurance so you can have cable TV.
I have a sneaky feeling a certain person named Caroline is feeding at the taxpayer trough right now and has no desire whatsoever to change that. Is that about right?
VOTE NO on socialized medicine – The U.S. government should not be in the charity business!
Mac
In fairness we are paying for the cost now of people without health insurance.
How do we fix the problem?
Mac,
Call comcast. You will see that the bill for basic cable runs around $25.00 per month. Do you really think you can find a family insurance plan for $25.00 per month? Even a single plan is about $100.00 per month or more. LOL!
Keep spinning. And twisting what I’m saying because you can’t defend your worthless ideals and opinions.
You are paying for people who don’t have insurance now. You are the one who wants to continue the current system not me. You are a typical lazy conservative. You want free healthcare that’s why you support a plan like Giuliani’s. It’s nothing but a sop to the special interests.
John
That is simply NOT true as evidenced by the article I posted the other day.
Not sure how often you want me to answer this.
1. Get the government out of the charity business. It is clearly unconstitutional.
2. Tort reform to include caps on jury awards and assuring baseless suits are paid for by the people who bring them – this includes paying for the medical professional’s defense as well if the plaintiff loses or if the case is found to be without merit. This would dramtically reduce these suits which would lower the cost of malpractice insurance and the fees doctors charge patients.
3. If we have to provide government funded (read TAXPAYER funded) health care, ONLY people at or below the poverty level should be included. Income level would be verified before care was dispensed except in the case of medical necessity. All others seeking care would be considerd on a case by case basis so special needs people aren’t denied care. Working people CAN afford minimal health insurance in virtually all cases. Again. I refer to the Cable TV, new car, cigarettes, out to dinner people who seem to be able to afford everything BUT health insurance.
4. Free market forces are CLEARLY the best way to go. When government takes over, nobody in private industry can compete and the taxpayer foots the tab.
5. The only people the government should be funding are those genuinely ENTITLED such as Veterans. Look at the mess the Medicare system has become and you can readily see my point. We simply can’t afford to keep doing this.
Those who prefer their cable TV to health insurance can fend for themselves and go to the nearest charity instead of relying on the rest of us to pay for their irresponsibility.
VOTE NO! on socialized medicine – Individual responsibility is the right way!
Caroline
Clearly, you refuse to give me the reference I asked for, so I decided to use YOUR numbers from post #10.
If basic cable cost $25 per month and health insurance $100, That means 12 months of cable will pay for three months of health insurance. In case you’re trying to figure that out, 12 X $25 = $300 or three months worth of insurance using YOUR numbers.
What’s more important Caroliine, 12 months of cable or 3 months of health insurance?
As for your “lazy conservative” comment, I find it odd that we “lazy conservatives” are responsible enough to see to it our families are provided for WITHOUT government handouts. Are you responsible Caroline or did I strike a nerve with my earlier post about you feeding at the government trough?
VOTE NO! on socialized medicine – It will bankrupt the Nation!
Mac
Why not make people pay who can afford it. And even people cannot pay we can take a reduced payment to off-set cost of free healthcare?
Why not give consumers and business a choice to buy into the government plan?
If private is better they will win the business!
John
What exactly does that mean when you ask “people who can afford?”
The ridiculous idea that someone making $82K “can’t afford” health insurance is ludicrous, but that’s the latest proposal before congress. If you read my post above I recommend we cut it off at the poverty level and I don’t believe even THAT passes constitutional muster.
What really bugs me are the people who can afford the “nice to have things,” but can’t seem to afford the “need to have things.”
I don’t think government has any business being in the health care industry except in a very limited capacity.
Right here in Atlanta, “Peach Care” provides care to kids of parents who think nothing of spending $35K on a new truck, but “can’t afford” health insurance. That’s the most ridiculous thing imagineable, but I’ve seen that with my own two eyes.
We are the most charitible Nation on earth. I think if someone needs help, they should go to a charity. That’s what they’re there for. The government is there to govern, NOT to assure health care to the masses.
VOTE NO NO NO! on socialized medicine – It will bankrupt the Nation!
Mac,
How about the socialized preamble?
We the people…
VOTE GOP and Bankrupt the country!
Mad Dog
Nice one! How about growing a brain?
VOTE FOR HELP FOR THE INTELLECTUALLY IMPAIRED! Mad Dog will thank you!
Mac,
Thank you for proving my point. It’s not an either or proposition. Going without cable will ONLY pay for three months. So you have insurance for three months but don’t have it the rest of the year? Yeah, that’s a real solution!
Isn’t Bush lazy? He’s taken more vacations than any other President! Who was whining about having to work an entire week? Well, conservatives, that’s who! Conservatives don’t believe in personal responsibility. They believe in being in intellectual laziness and dishonesty. It’s interesting to debate with someone who’s too lazy to look up other candidates plans. Conservatives always throw their failures onto others. Face it, conservatives are massively lazy people who don’t want to have to work on a solution. Just say “let the free market” handle it! Pretty lazy eh? LOL.
So Caroline
For the third, fourth or fifth time, will you please provide the Constitutional reference for your health care claims? Or are you too busy trying to figure out what OTHER government handouts you’re “entitled” to?
Also, you failed to answer the MUCH easier question; What’s more important, 3 months of health insurance or 12 months os cable TV? I’d really like to hear your ideas on that!
VOTE NO! on socialized medicine – perhaps it will teach left wing layabouts like Caroline some personal responsibility!
John/Caroline
Perhaps you should know some facts about the “enlightened” demogogues currently in place……
“Unsatisfied with thwarting a Republican effort to authorize $3 billion for a border fence, congressional Democrats are trying to enhance the incentive for illegal aliens to enter the United States by removing the citizenship requirement from the popular State Children’s Health Insurance Program (SCHIP). The Republican Congress in 1996 passed legislation blocking people who are in the country illegally from claiming benefits from the federal government, and when SCHIP was created in 1997, states were required to verify citizenship. But Democrats want to take that sensible requirement for Medicaid and SCHIP and leave it to the discretion of each state. This reflects the Democrats’ eagerness to offer free services to illegals at taxpayer expense, undermining the principles of both immigration law and good governance. And it is also a step Democrats want to take toward expanding SCHIP, like their plan to expand its coverage to include children from middle-income families that make up to $83,000 per year—a plan encompassing more than 70 percent of American children. (When SCHIP first came into being it was only for families with incomes up to double the poverty level, or $40,000 for a family of four.) Expanding the program will cost $50 billion over five years; expanding it by giving states the option to not enforce the citizenship requirement pushes the price tag up even higher—although just how much would depend on how many states decide to include illegals in the program.” —The Washington Times
So John…..what do you say now? I’d ask, but I already know Caroline’s position on feeding at the public trough.
VOTE NO on socialized medicine – It will bankrupt the Country!
Mac
I am not for the current program.
John
You’re not for what? Our current Health care system or the expanded federal system this system guarantees?
I’m not for expanding government either
That’s exactly my point. If you think it’s bad now, you ain’t seen nothing yet! The dems want everybody to believe they have all the answers when it’s abundantly clear, with legislation like this, they haven’t got a clue. Look at the price tag…..$50 BILLION DOLLARS!
I’d be the first to say something needs to be done to fix the problem, but the last to say the government should fix it. The track record on the federal government doing anything effectively or affordably can only be described as abysmal.
VOTE NO! on socialized medicine – It will bankrupt the Nation!
Since Tax Payers don’t support paying more taxes, who is going to pay for this? Business that passes the tax back to the consumer who then buys foreign goods to avoid the tax or on the wealthy who can put their money in foundations, tax free securities, overseas investments, etc.?
Even when something is “good” you have to pay for it and our nation’s citizens aren’t willing to pay for and Federal programs. They don’t want to pay for what we already have so how do you get them to pay for even more?
We already have a $50 trillion unfunded liability that equals $400,000 per full time worker, so how do you tax them even more or raise the prices with taxes in them without making those workers even worse off? A lot of that “unfunded liability” is from Medicare/Medicaid, the already existing help from the Federal Government and we expect them to pay for even more? How? How do they pay for more without hurting them and the economy even more.
It is no longer about what is needed, what is good, what “we have to do,” etc. It is about paying for it when we, as a nation, already owe more than we own. If our nation was an individual, it would be declared bankrupt.
Mac
I am for seeing what is the most cost affective way to deliver healthcare while maintaining quality. If the VA can deliver healthcare at a better price why should consumer not be able to buy in? If the private companies do a better job than consumer will buy it over the VA or lawmakers healthcare plan.
I always thought more competition is better not less!
John
Let’s get something straight…Veterans EARNED the right to use the VA through honorable service to the Nation. John Q. Public didn’t.
If you’re suggesting allowing people to BUY a policy from the government, I’d say that stifles competition from the private sector.
Why do you thing postal rates keep going up? Because companies like FedEx, UPS, Airborne and others are taking away customers because they do things BETTER than the post office, but can’t possibly afford to carry mail across the country for 41 cents. Only a government (read taxpayer) subsidized entity could afford something like that.
VOTE NO TO PELOSI AND REID’S Socialized Medicine plan. It will make the Bush prescription drug and education legislation look like chump change!
Sgtmac,
Wow, you still don’t get it do you? It’s not a legitimate choice. What good is having insurance for only 3 months?
Since you claim to know so much about me why don’t you tell the rest of the posters what color hair I have? What is my eye color? Since you claim to read minds you should be able to at least get those facts right.
Caroline
I know you all too well. You’d rather be entertained than have health insurance and have the rest of us pay for you. You’re a user. A typical “government hand-out leftist.” You’re part of the problem, certainly not the solution. You’d rather have the government raise your kids and ensure they have healthcare than taking that reponsibility yourself. You’d prefer to sponge off the rest of us instead of making your own way in the world.
You refuse to answer basic questions about our founding documents or whether health insurance is more important than cable TV.
Your refusal to answer these questions speaks volumes about you. You think the rest of us should subsidize you and your government handout lifestyle.
You attempt to be funny with air head comments like “just let the free market handle it. LOL.” You sound like you have as much knowledge of the subject as Paris Hilton has of neurosurgery.
In case you’re wondering, free markets drive economic engines. Of course, you’d probably say something really “intellectual” here, you know, something typically stupid and lacking any facts. Of course you’d end it with your favorite “LOL.”
You justify your brain-dead rantings with complete tripe and utter lack of knowledge on the subject, yet you act as though you actually know something. The only thing you know is the amount of taxpayer money you get and you know that right down to the penny.
The day will come when people like you won’t be able to get an aspirin because you’ve taken so much and never given anything back. When that day comes, I hope you’re enjoying your Cable TV.
VOTE NO on socialized medicine – It will bankrupt the Country!
sgtmac,
You are so incredibly stupid it’s not even funny! If I wanted a government handout I would support Rudy’s plan. I pay $500.00 per month for insurance and Rudy would be cutting me a check for $6,000 per year! Rudy’s plan would cost WAY more money than a plan like Edwards.
Like I said, you know nothing about me. You couldn’t even hazard a guess on the questions I gave you. Put down the GOP crack pipe and get off your lazy butt and get a job!
Caroline
Do you plan to ever answer the questions posed, or do you intend to spew this leftist tripe?
Just in case you’ve forgotten,
1. Where in our founding documents does it mention government funded health care?
2. What’s more imprtant, a year of cable TV or three months of health insurance?
I’m waiting for your response, but I won’t hold my breath.
VOTE NO on socialized medicine! People like Caroline need to learn some personal responsibility instead of the best way to get government assistance!
mac,
When is competition between medicare, private insurance and the private government health plans the same as government funded health care?
Your question is incredibly sutpid. What good is health care for three months if you get sick on the forth month? Are you clueless enough to think that 3 months of insurance will cover you for the rest of the year. Cable won’t cover your health and neither will 3 months of insurance. Those kinds of statements pretty much prove why the GOP has become a laughingstock. It is so clueless.
Caroline
Clearly you haven’t ANY idea what you’re talking about. Please take a look at your beloved demogogue plan to bilk senior citizens and the rest of us out of BILLIONS of dollars. After you’ve read the facts, perhaps you’ll answer the questions I asked.
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=21784
It really would help if you had the odd fact before blathering on…..
VOTE NO on socialized medicine – It will bankrupt the Country!
Well I had to laugh at the hysterical rantings of that article. I guess ending corporate welfare sends the GOP into a tizzy. She has no problem with medicare which is an entitlement but big problems with SCHIP which is not an entitlement.
The GOP talking about any spending issue becomes a comedy of errors since we are spending $14 billion per month in Iraq on a quagmire.
Fair enough Caroline
Avoid the issue and change the subject. You refuse to face facts. The point of the piece is that it WILL become an entitlement. I guess you missed that part because it doesn’t fit your government hand-out philosophy. You babble on about “corporate welfare” when the piece is about expanding entitlements and sticking it to the elderly.
Enjoy your cable TV. Good luck with that.
You haven’t got a clue.
VOTE NO! NO! NO! on socialized medicine. It will bankrupt the Country!
Great thread…exposes John and caroline as the same person under different blog monikers.
caroline really exposes herself by comparing cable tv to healthcare. By all means caroline, choose to watch HBO instead of paying for healthcare, that is your choice. But don’t force me to pay for your bad choices so that I can no longer have both cable tv and healthcare.
I’m with Mac on this one 100%…if you want to experience REALLY bad healthcare, let the government take over.
The better solution is full competition based on individuals purchasing medical insurance policies themselves instead of through their employers. We can start by eliminating SCHIP which will be passed by the Congress today — Bush veto on the horizon.
bb,
I find your post ridiculous since according to John you don’t even have insurance. Typical sanctiminous Republican bs. No wonder no one trusts the GOP. They are all about defending the current system which is more expensive and we all know that the GOP likes to waste tons of money!
bb,
You obviously know nothing about insurance if you think individual policies are cheaper than group policies. The ignorance of rank and file Republicans about insurance doesn’t surprise me but you will be suprised by the electorate with continuing failed policies.
caroline,
Actually I have great insurance (including dental) at a cost of $165 per month…thanks for asking. John should refrain from passing along erroneous information about others.
Your inane response continues the exposure of you as someone who really has no clue. Does that $500 policy include psyhco analysis…if yes, please schedule an appointment.
Caroline
STOP the crap! If group policies are “cheaper” than individual policies as you say, why do you need the government involved?
You can’t even keep your story straight! I suggest you go back to the local government hand-out office and get what you’re “entitled” to. I hear they’re giving away “free” (read taxpayer subsidized) Showtime this month!
VOTE NO! NO! NO! NO! on socialized medicine – Let people like Caroline pay their fair share!
bb,
Another juvenile statement. Good for you. Perhaps you and Rush should start dating.
mac,
Rudy is for eliminating group policies. Do you even know what you are talking about? Why don’t you support competition? I know because you said that private companies can’t compete, right? You are the one that’s implying that the Gov. can provide better health insurance with that kind of statement.
Caroline
Go get your “nanny” care on the back of taxpayers. That’s about all you’re good for. Let’s see, 38 posts and still no answer about constitutionality or whether you think cable is more important than health insurance,,,,Hmmmmm….I can’t imagine why you’d be waiting.
VOTE NO! NO! NO! on socialized medicine – Make Caroline and the rest of the bottom feeders pay like everyone else!
She’s waiting because Oprah is coming on and she needs to get her daily dose of liberal feminism before replying.
Mac,
Rudy’s plan will pay your insurance premium for you. Is that what you want? Competition is now “nanny state”? All you can do is throw around GOP talking points and not even debate the merits of the plan. I’ve replied but it’s not what you want to hear so it’s not an answer in your book.
bb,
Grow up. I know it’s hard work (cue the whine) but maybe you should try.
Keep Spinning Caroline
It doesn’t pass Constitutional muster and you know it, hence, your continued babbling without answering the question. As I said earlier, hurry down to your local government hand out office to get your “free” showtime!
VOTE AGAINST SOCIALIZED MEDICINE! Caroline is certain to cancel out at least ine vote!
mac,
I’m not the one that supports getting free insurance via corporate welfare. That’s you. Sorry but you have no understanding of what you are talking about.
Here’s your rationale:
1. Anything to do with the gov. is “nanny state.”
2. Free stuff you get via the corporate welfare system is a “good thing.” So as long as there’s a middleman you can feel good about taking.
In the constitution it says provide for the general welfare. You can take that to mean what you want. The War in Iraq would be deemed unconstitutional because it is not in defense of our country. It’s about building an empire.
Caroline
In the constitution it says provide for the general welfare. You can take that to mean what you want.
==================
Exactly. For 150 years it meant that you had a good defense, sound monetary policy, controlled spending, didn’t intervene in areas the States handled and stayed out of social programs and moral issues. The Supreme Court shot down FDR’s programs as “unconstitutional,” until the big fight with FDR where he was going to add several more Justices to get what he wanted. Then with several Justices leaving the Bench, he got to put the Justices he needed in place and the previous “unconstitutional” programs were suddenly needed for the “general welfare” of the nation.
The “general welfare” clause was referring to the “health of the nation” and not the people. Thus, even though the people might to suffer, have things rationed or denied them during a national emergency, the “welfare of the nation” came first. That makes sense since you can’t provide for the people if the nation’s health collapses as it is doing now.
We can’t fund what we have. We can’t fund our maintenance of infrastructure. We can’t fund the war. We can’t fund Social Security and Medicare without immediate tax increases of 16% for S.S. and 122% for Medicare. Yet, the people are asking for more. It isn’t whether they are good or needed or important. It is that we have a nation of people who won’t pay for what they want.
Since they can’t figure out how to pay for what we already have, why is Congress considering adding more spending?