Is This Conservative?
The federal government’s “no sex without marriage” message isn’t just for kids anymore.
Now the government is targeting unmarried adults up to age 29 as part of its abstinence-only programs, which include millions of dollars in federal money…
“They’ve stepped over the line of common sense,” said James Wagoner… “To be preaching abstinence when 90% of people are having sex is in essence to lose touch with reality. It’s an ideological campaign. It has nothing to do with public health.”
“I think the program should talk about the problem with out-of- wedlock childbearing — not about your sex life,” Brown says. “If you use contraception effectively and consistently, you will not be in the pool of out-of-wedlock births.”
Is this an appropriate role for the government to be taking? Is this appropriate on any level? Or is it time for a constitutional ban on premarital sex (to match the de facto ban on marital sex that many married couples report)?
October 31st, 2006 at 2:01 pm
yes- the gov’t suggesting that pre-marital sex has consequences is just stilly.
If 90% of people are crossing the borders illegally, robbing banks, etc- then we should just accept that this must be a good thing.
Gov’t needs to continue teaching people that there are no negative consequences of behavior, and even if they are victim of such a thing, we the gov’t, will make sure they have free health care, food, and housing. Heck if you have kids, we will even give you a check.
October 31st, 2006 at 2:27 pm
I think the “no sex” thing and the human cloning thing are a perfect match. Man. christianity and politics together. Yipeeee.
October 31st, 2006 at 3:12 pm
CDC: STD - Surveillance & Statistics
The trend for pretty much all STD’s over the last decade has been a steady upward climb. What would you suggest doing about it? Safe sex messages are neat and all but people don’t practice safe sex. Usually people who are engaging in risky have compounding risk factors as well (i.e. drug abuse).
October 31st, 2006 at 4:45 pm
Church Police: Sex = Robbing Banks???
Is that really how you think about sex?
October 31st, 2006 at 4:50 pm
James: Sadly, you’ve got it exactly backwards when it comes to safe sex.
In Africa, study after study documents that when they offer safe sex training and condoms, Aids infections fall sharply.
Then if the religious know-it-all’s pull the safe sex ed and instead preach abstinence-only, people die.
That is the reality.
October 31st, 2006 at 5:00 pm
Do you have any hard data to support your hypothesis?
October 31st, 2006 at 5:06 pm
You do realize that Abstinence is the only way to be 100% sure that you won’t be at risk. Is it that hard to understand?
What if you were told that everytime you ate a cookie from the store, you had a significant percentage chance of getting food poisoning. You wouldn’t eat as many cookies right? It’s not hard to put the cookie down. Why do people think that we can’t control ourselves.
October 31st, 2006 at 5:26 pm
James: Technically, suicide is the only way to be 100% sure of not being at risk for STD’s, because of rape. Actually, I forgot about prayer. Suicide and prayer are the only ways to be sure.
And I don’t see how it’s any of your business whether my data’s hard. Just kidding. Dig in.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0830-02.htm
http://www.health-e.org.za/news/article.php?uid=20031477
October 31st, 2006 at 5:53 pm
http://www.health-e.org.za/news/article.php?uid=20031477
“Jodi Jacobson said although they had no hard evidence the up tick in prevalence in Uganda could be due to the massive PEPFAR driven abstinence-only rollout in the country.”
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0830-02.htm
Dude, Lefthook, did you even read this article? It hints that the funding was cut for the other programs due to concernsover misappropriations of the massive amounts of money pouring into the country to fight the AIDS epidemic.
The row over Uganda’s HIV/Aids strategy comes at a time when the financial management of the country’s Aids programmes is under the spotlight. Last week the Global Fund for Aids, TB and Malaria pulled all its funding from Uganda’s programmes. After an inquiry by accountants PricewaterhouseCoopers, the Global Fund suspended five grants worth $201m over two years and demanded that the unit within the Ugandan ministry of health that manages them should be disbanded.
Officially, Uganda remains committed to the threefold “ABC” policy. The initials stand for “Abstinence, Be faithful, use a Condom”. The Ugandan government denied yesterday that there is a scarcity of condoms or a policy change. The health minister, Jim Muhwezi, said: “It is not true that there is a condom shortage. There seems to be a coordinated smear campaign by those who do not want to use any other alternative simultaneously with condoms against Aids.”
uhh try again?
October 31st, 2006 at 6:12 pm
Just wanted to take a second to comment on the rape thing. Do you think if the victim offered the rapist a condom they would use it? You logic is not so tight there…
As for prayer, I’ve actually met a man who stated that he was living in the homosexual lifestyle, tested positive for HIV, prayed to God, left the lifestyle after sincerely repenting and the HIV completely dissapeared. I have no way to verify the veracity of his claims but he was awfully excited to share his story.
October 31st, 2006 at 7:17 pm
Lefthook
You make it sound like somehow you are hurting people by promoting “no sex without marriage”? Are you not pushing your values at James?
October 31st, 2006 at 8:01 pm
JohnKonop: For starters, I’m a Liberal so in your eyes I don’t have any values, right?
Please don’t misrepresent me. I am NOT saying you are hurting people by promoting “no sex before marriage” — I’m saying you’re killing people.
Promoting safe sex practices works better at preventing the transmission of Aids than abstinence-only IN THE REAL WORLD. Because in the real world, people do have sex. (And premarital sex is not an immoral act.)
October 31st, 2006 at 8:23 pm
James: Alright. Busted. I was rushing and didn’t read them closely. But they are not total loss.
The point is this: The ABCs work because they encourage positive behavior AND provide protection to reduce risks during sex.
If you take away the condoms (which the abstinence-only supports by definition) the programs become far less successful, and more people risk death. Both of those articles do make that point.
October 31st, 2006 at 8:28 pm
James: Regarding the rape-thing. I was half joking that abstinence isn’t a foolproof protection against STDs because a person practicing abstinence could still be raped and infected. (Thus, only suicide is foolproof).
As for prayer, if it works for someone, good for them (honestly). But some have found it less reliable than condoms for preventing pregnancy and STD infection.
October 31st, 2006 at 8:29 pm
Lefthook
Premarital sex is a sin?
October 31st, 2006 at 8:37 pm
JohnKonop: Are you asking me? I don’t understand your post.
October 31st, 2006 at 9:04 pm
Do you not think Premarital sex is a sin?
October 31st, 2006 at 9:11 pm
JohnKonop: If by sin you mean that God (the Zeus-like dude) is watching and judging us and, upon seeing somebody have sex without being married slams his gavel and labels the offender a bad person and condemns them to eternity in a place called Hell.
Then no, I don’t think that happens. So by that definition I don’t think premarital sex is a sin.
Do you?
November 1st, 2006 at 6:01 am
Yes, Premarital sex is a sin?
No one is perfect and I do not think it condemns them to eternity in a place called Hell.
What about forgiveness?
November 1st, 2006 at 8:29 am
Does anybody think that this whole thing is stupid? Where are you going to get a captive audience of twenty year olds to lecture them on abstinence?
Yes, it is conservative. Conservatives define everything through the prism of sex.
November 1st, 2006 at 12:19 pm
I have to agree with Lefthook and Caroline on this.
This is more big-government Conservatism (an oxymoron). A better defintion of it would be Authoritarianism or Statism.
What ever it is, the so-called “conservatives” pushing it, are not pushing something conservative.
In other news, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg (RINO)thinks that people are stupid and cannot decide for themselves whether or not they want to eat food with Transfat in it.
This pisses me off.
November 1st, 2006 at 12:21 pm
John,
It is a sin, but its not the Government’s job to punish “sin”, that’s God’s job.
The government’s job is to punish people who violate the individual rights of others. Two people having consensual sex out of wedlock might be a “sin”, but it’s not a crime. Government needs to quit babying people.
November 1st, 2006 at 1:06 pm
I have to log in on the STD thing, not the sin thing.
Nurses, doctors, lab techs, and others involved in treatment and diagnosis of STD’s (as well as dentists, family members and friends) have a risk factor in STDs without having sex.
One in every 5000 patients that shows up at a “doctors office” in the USA, has an active, full blown, undiagnosed HIV infection.
That infected person usually thinks they just have the flu and can’t get over it.
And, don’t forget the babies born with STD’s.
Not that it helps with this debate.
November 1st, 2006 at 1:07 pm
And, I have to hit Jace with this one.
I think God got out of the punishment service industry. It’s now called the Forgiveness Forever Bureau. Or, something like that.
November 1st, 2006 at 3:03 pm
Caroline,
Conservatives define everything through the prism of sex.
That’s not conservatives of all stripes. That’s just me. I’m a one issue (trick) pony.
However as you’ve seen, sex trickles deeply into our lives and is one of the primary motivating forces in humans.
P.S. The sin thing is kinda moot. All sin offends God, the small sins and the large. All humans sin pretty much everyday. We do things and say things that ripple through our world in ways we cannot easily see. That is why developing a sincere relationship with God is important. You begin to see the details of how your behavior affects other people and you also begin to understand how God’s grace works in your life.
November 1st, 2006 at 10:45 pm
Mad Dog,
I still belive God punishes for our Sins here on Earth…that’s why he gave us American Idol. AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!