Median income dropping for men, slowing for households
The trade and immigration policy supported by the elites of both parties are destroying working class people. This is why lawmakers will take it on the chin in 08 and beyond the more voters figure out they are being sold out by politicians who are bought off by Multi-national Corporation seeking cheap labor!
MSNBC-The American dream has always held that each generation will enjoy a higher standard of living than the previous one, and that is still true, as measured by household income.
But the generational gains are slowing, and the increased participation of women in the work force is the only thing keeping the dream alive, according to an analysis of Census data released Friday.
A generation ago, American men in their thirties had median annual incomes of about $40,000 compared with men of the same age who now make about $35,000 a year, adjusted for inflation. That’s a 12.5 percent drop between 1974 and 2004, according to the report from the Pew Charitable Trusts’ Economic Mobility Project.
The middle class is getting crushed under the current tax system and what the democrats plan for taxes.
How about you start talking about cutting spending, then start talking about cutting taxes. Typical Republican, wants something for nothing.
Captain, I agree with what you said about yourself in another issue.
I don’t think you can in any way find anything I said about spending more.
In fact, you’ll find I support spending less and less government control of people and business.
I’m not a republican btw.
I am for spending less, which to start, cutting entitlement programs that encourage people to live off the government. Second, stop the pork. Third, shrink the government and let private companies screw us.
Question Captain, do you think the topic is a valid point or just someone spinning numbers?
I think it’s easy to say cut entitlements. Which entitlements would you like to cut first?
The reality is that many of the entitlements discussed provide support to our most vulnerable citizens. Very easy to say “cut entitlements” when you don’t depend on those entitlements to pay for your $300/month medication bill.
Wanna cut entitlements? How about pensions for federal employees? How about doing away with the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation? Should taxpayers being covering employees who get screwed out of their pension by poorly managed corporations?
I think you should talk about cutting taxes immediately after you’ve cut the programs that require taxation in the first place. Otherwise you’ll still have the programs and you’ll have to borrow to cover the expense (which is what we do now, and is plain stupid).
“you’ll find I support spending less and less government control of people and business.”
Naive. Big populations of humans require big governments of some form or another. This ain’t the wild west and it sure ain’t utopia. Welcome to the new world.
“Question Captain, do you think the topic is a valid point or just someone spinning numbers?”
I think that if you are an American man making $40,000/year and you want to make more… then work more. That’s what I do. I don’t bitch about the government keeping me down. Start a business, develop a new skill, or whatever. Go work more/harder and stop belly-aching.
Life is hard and unfair… so ends lesson 1.
Captain,
One thing you have to remember is that here in the south it’s an article of faith that the government is to blame for EVERYTHING!
Funny how that’s the case caroline. Has it been that way since… I don’t know… 1865?
People hate the government until they have nowhere else to turn to. Isn’t there a saying about … “there but for the grace of god…”?
Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security serve people who are usually dealing with life-threatening or debilitating issues. I’d like to see more help available and not less. Yes, I’m a little soft under the crust.
I would like to see much stiffer penalties for white collar criminals (like Mr. Frist and his family’s company HCA) who blatantly rip off the government and entitlement program beneficiaries.
captain
READ THIS AND TELL THE GAME IS FAIR FOR WORKING CLASS PEOPLE?
Illegal Immigration: A Rich American’s Game
This is one of the best articles I have ever read about explaining the core issue behind illegal immigration. Congress has formed an unholy alliance with the lobbyist money changers in Washington to sell out small business and the middle class. Please read this article and tell me what you think.
By Froma Harrop
RCP-There’s a popular game in America that goes, I’ll cut your wages, but you don’t cut mine. And the outsourcing of your factory job to China is a good thing, because it makes my paycheck go further at Wal-Mart. We hear this theme a lot in the debate over illegal immigration.
Consider the recent raids on Swift meat-processing plants. Federal agents arrested 1,187 illegal immigrants at facilities in six states. Mere hours later, economists warned that depriving the industry of illegal labor could raise hamburger prices.
Illegal immigration is usually presented as a win-win situation: Undocumented foreigners earn far more than they could back home. Consumers get a bargain.
Nowhere to be seen are America’s working poor who get stomped on 13 different ways. They have to compete with illegal immigrants for jobs and housing. Low-skilled natives and legal immigrants also end up subsidizing the undocumented because they tend to live in the same communities, which must provide hospitals, police, schools and garbage pickup.
Who doesn’t suffer from illegal immigration? For starters, the people who write about it. I speak of the journalism profession, which has the habit of covering the issue by anecdotes. Reporters thrive on sympathetic stories about illegal immigrants who work hard and go to church
But, were a busload of illegals from Australia to turn up at their newspaper and offer reportage at 10 percent below the going rate, the writers would call the authorities so fast that your head would spin. And the publisher’s argument that thanks to the cheap Australians, he’s able to trim a few cents off the newsstand price would make no impression.
As it turns out, the meat-processing companies that employ so many illegal immigrants have been enjoying a nearly 50-percent discount on what was the going rate. In 1980, the average meat-processing job paid $19 an hour. The companies then moved their plants to rural areas, far from the Midwest cities and their unions. The industry’s wages now average about $9 an hour.
The U.S. Chamber of Commerce likes to wail about the “labor shortage.” It says there aren’t enough chambermaids, dishwashers, etc. to work for its members at lousy wages. Odd, but when there’s a shortage of labor — or anything else — doesn’t the price of it go up? The price of unskilled labor in the United States hasn’t gone up. It’s gone down. Because of immigration, American-born high-school dropouts experienced a 5-percent loss in wages during the ’80s and ’90s, according to a study by Harvard economist George Borjas.
For some reason, the job of keeping prices low has fallen entirely on the shoulders of the most vulnerable Americans. If we banged down CEO compensation and sliced lawyers’ pay by a third, the same thing would happen. Everyone’s prices would drop. The corporation could sell its products for less, and the cost of legal services would fall.
No vocation keeps a tighter lid on immigration than the medical profession. “If we let in 100,000 immigrant doctors,” Richard Freeman, another Harvard economist, recently told a group of journalists, “everyone in this room would benefit.” Except the American doctors.
Suggest a U.S. labor policy that depresses professional pay as a means of keeping prices in check, and you get laughed out of the room. But say that sitting on the wages of unskilled factory workers stems inflationary pressure — a frequently made argument — and the PhDs quietly nod in agreement.
And that’s how the game is played. High pay for me. Low pay for you. The folks at the economic bottom are obviously not making the rules
“And that’s how the game is played. High pay for me. Low pay for you. The folks at the economic bottom are obviously not making the rules”
You could have saved some bandwidth and just copy and pasted the last few sentences of that article.
And…? Your point is? Isn’t that the way it has always been?
The “core issue behind immigration” is xenophobia and an irrational fear of “cultural pollution”.
captain
Tell that to a painter, construction worker, meat packers…
Captain, post #5.
I think we have encouraged many people to be dependent on entitlements. Not encourage people to support themselves.
I fully support taking care of people who can not take care of themselves.
I don’t like a system that supports people who make irresponsible decisions or decisions to take advantage of current entitlement laws. Simple example of having more kids to get more money.
Pensions were what people counted on for retiring. I agree with you that companies were not responsible, which the government should have over saw that pensions were protected. I do think that as an income earner today, yes, it is my responsibility to help these people who counted on that for retirement.
I agree that taxes should be cut when entitlement programs are cut.
Your “Naive. Big populations of humans require big governments of some form or another.” is just flat out wrong. The bigger the government, the bigger the waste of money, less effective services, if any. Let a small oversite of government employees watch private enterprise provide services.
The closer the service is needed to home the closer the local government should monitor it.
Katrina is a classic example where the mayor failed, and so did the governor. Both blamed the US government. All three levels failed. Even the corp of engineers failed way back when they built the leveys.
Bigger government way far away from where you live is not the answer to help you.
Captain, post #6.
In my life I have be accustomed to working 50, 60, 70, and over 80 hours a week.
I accept that, and get paid for it.
I agree, want more money, work more, work harder.
Problem is as far as ending #1, the government takes more of a percentage of my money as I’m willing to work longer and harder. What is fair about that?
Why should more of my money go to people who want the government to take care of them and they are not incentive to work hard, if at all?
Captain, post #8.
I totally agree with:
“I would like to see much stiffer penalties for white collar criminals”
John,
It has always been about cheaper labor for the same quality of service.
Problem is shipping work off shore, generally the quality of service is worse.
Problem is in having people coming into the country to do hard labor, the quality is cheaper and better.
So, to me it comes down to a question. What is capitalism about?
Which I think this country was and is based on. Competition. Local protection of jobs means not competing outside the local.
“Simple example of having more kids to get more money.”
This argument gets dragged into “entitlement debates” constantly.
It’s called public assistance. It is a very very small percentage of entitlement dollars (both nationally and locally). It’s a red herring. You could kill public assistance and it wouldn’t even show up as a blip on the federal budget.
The big programs are Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security. These are the money pits. If you get to know any beneficiaries of these programs you’ll realize that the programs meet a genuine need.
I’m not trying to argue with you preussow, but I think you have developed some artificial assumptions regarding entitlements in the U.S.
“What is capitalism about? “
From wiki…
Capitalism generally refers to an economic system in which the means of production are privately owned and operated for profit, and in which investments, distribution, income, production and pricing of goods and services are determined through the operation of a free market.
Nationalism (disguised as patriotism) has little (if nothing) to do with capitalism. This is where John will pipe in with: “but you’re talking about slave labor.” That’s a part of the free market John. It was back in the 1700’s when your hero Adam Smith pontificated on economics, and it is today.
Adam Smith also said labor needed rights to negotiate, rule of law and was big on anti-trust laws! BTW he was against slavery!
captain
FYI
The phrase is based on the writings of John Locke, who expressed a similar concept of “life, liberty, and estate (or property)”. While Locke said that “no one ought to harm another in his life, health, liberty, or possessions”, Adam Smith coined the phrase “life, liberty, and the pursuit of property”. The expression “pursuit of happiness” was coined by Dr. Samuel Johnson in his 1759 novel Rasselas.
“All systems either of preference or of restraint, therefore, being thus completely taken away, the obvious and simple system of natural liberty establishes itself of its own accord. Every man, as long as he does not violate the laws of justice, is left perfectly free to pursue his own interest his own way, and to bring both his industry and capital into competition with those of any other man or order of men”
(The Wealth of Nations, vol. II, bk. IV, ch. 9.)
Monopoly:-
§ “A monopoly granted either to an individual or to a trading company has the same effect as a secret in trade or manufactures. The monopolists, by keeping the market constantly understocked, by never fully supplying the effectual demand, sell their commodities much above the natural price, and raise their emoluments, whether they consist in wages or profit, greatly above their natural rate.” (vol. I, bk. I, ch. 7.)
FYI
FROM BBC
Adam Smith was an abolitionist and questioned the long-term economic benefits of slavery, whose abolition he did not live to see: “Whatever work he does beyond what is sufficient to purchase his own maintenance can be squeezed out of him by violence only, and not by any interest of his own,” he wrote on the subject.
Although The Wealth of Nations is by far the best-known of Adam Smith’s works today, it was an earlier work – The Theory of Moral Sentiments – which made his name during his lifetime. A treatise which argued that people were born with a sense of right and wrong, and of how to behave towards others, it sold out in weeks.
I wonder how Smith reconciled his beliefs about slavery with what the Bible says about slavery?
How did Smith come to believe slavery was wrong when the Bible clearly states that it’s OK?
“Adam Smith also said labor needed rights to negotiate”
What if labor doesn’t stand up and fight for their rights? Should capitalists become nannies of the labor class? It’s not necessarily in their best interest and doesn’t make economic sense for them to behave as “stewards of labor”. Capitalists are stewards of capital… hence the name capitalist.
Labor only has power when it is organized. It is up to the labor class to organize and enforce their own rights.
captain
Smith was pro union.
From Wikipedia
The 18th century economist Adam Smith noted the imbalance in the rights of workers in regards to owners (or “masters”). In The Wealth of Nations, Book I, chapter 8, Smith wrote:
We rarely hear, it has been said, of the combinations of masters, though frequently of those of workmen. But whoever imagines, upon this account, that masters rarely combine, is as ignorant of the world as of the subject. Masters are always and everywhere in a sort of tacit, but constant and uniform combination, not to raise the wages of labour above their actual rate…
When workers combine, masters… never cease to call aloud for the assistance of the civil magistrate, and the rigorous execution of those laws which have been enacted with so much severity against the combinations of servants, labourers, and journeymen.
As indicated in the preceding quotation, unions were illegal for many years in most countries (and Smith argued that schemes to fix prices or wages, by employers and employees, should be).
Captain
MLK used god in many of his speeches. Do you think he was wrong?
Not only are wages lower but so is buying power.
But, remember that a low wage worker pays 7.5% in payroll, probably 8% in state and local sales sales tax, and 35% in hidden tax and compliance costs in price. Thus, he is only getting 1/2 his paycheck to use for actual accumulation of good and services.
When the nations in faster rise than us, simplified tax codes they actually got better compliance. We have 17,000 pages of tax code and another 40,000 pages of forms, instructions, rulings, IRS decisions, definitions, etc. that have to be used. Then add Sarbanes Oxely and other recent regulation and you see why prices are so high.
quote:
According to a 2001 U.S. government report entitled “The Impact of Regulatory Costs on Small Firms,” companies spent roughly $800 billion annually on federal compliance issues before Sarbanes-Oxley was even drafted.
http://www.cioinsight.com/article2/0,1540,1846782,00.asp
Sarbanes Oxley was way more expensive that they thought it would be.
Thus, our government in its infinite wisdom, instead of reforming tax codes, decided to flood the labor pool to keep wages lower to help with prices because American consumers have no loyalty to U.S. goods and will buy a foreign good to just save a dime sometimes even when it is the product they make.
Our total system of government is broken.
Look at the gov. agencies saying we can’t sustain our economy once the boomers start retiring.
S.S. say we need and immediate rise in taxes on S.S. by 16% and a 121% increase in Medicare taxes.
Our unfunded liability for just those two programs increased our unfunded liability from $20 trillion to $50 trillion or $400,000 per full time worker and that is assuming we replace all 78 million leaving the work force and add another 30 million or so jobs. Actually we need to increase jobs by about 60 million over the next 23 years and yet, we don’t have the birth rate to support any growth.
Thus, the 78 million and bulk of the growth will be filled immigrants because we don’t reform our government so we can survive with a stable population.
The train wreck is coming. Neither party can stop it because voters won’t elect representatives that are needed for the tough calls. But, we can be prepared for the train wreck and even do well during it if we are prepared for it if we have been frugal and aren’t in deep debt.
The Gov. Accounting Agency says our standard of living will drop dramatically and I agree. I see no way around it with voters refusing to elect members of either party that would reform our government.
Jan
Great comment!
“MLK used god in many of his speeches. Do you think he was wrong?”
Wasn’t MLK a reverand? I expect a reverand to invoke their diety ad nauseum. Religion has always been a powerful tool for influencing the masses.
When it comes to economics there really isn’t a right or wrong answer. There is only what is. Economics is the study of human behavior in regards to allocation of resources.
I do think there is right and wrong in economics!
Pew Research is highly respected, but I couldn’t find any supporting data in the official statistics.
FYI, according to the Census department, the 1,454,000 30-34 year olds’ mean income [males only] was $52,993 in 2006, whereas the 1,456,000 35-39 year olds it was $55,962. http://pubdb3.census.gov/macro/032006/hhinc/new02_055.htm
Seems like a lot of fuss for less than 1% of the population.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Mr Konop,
True, there is a right and wrong in economics.
Google “bias” for further information.
David,
Come on everyone can see the trend!
You need to get out and talk to the people here and you would stop the spin!
Also, you have to look at buying power. We are losing ground two ways in buying power.
Higher import prices due to falling dollar which is a result of the loss of confidence in the U.S. economy and dollar.
The other way is higher compliance costs that raise the prices of domestic goods and service.
Also, add the double digit demand growth of China and India for oil that is causing the OPEC nations to be able to keep prices high with just small reductions in production and due to al-Qaeda attacks on Nigerian oil fields and other oil nations.
Then add our growing price for corn to meet ethanol demand that is raising wheat, soy beans and oat prices and thus, food prices and feed prices for livestock.
Every aspect of our economy is in trouble now but hanging on. What happens when 78 million leave the work force and start drawing from social security and Medicare instead of paying into them?
Where will the $400,000 each full time worker owes for the unfunded liability come from? That is in addition to all the other taxes he has to pay just to fund current government.
We will probably hit a period of hyper-inflation as our government tries to alleviate that burden on workers but, while we can pay the burden with cheap dollars, the people who get those benefits won’t get enough to meet their needs unless they too are flooded with cheap dollars. If that happens, you defeat the benefit of using inflated dollars to pay off a debt.
On a “loan” such as the loans to us by China, the inflated dollars do have a benefit since the interest rate is fixed. But, for social security and Medicare which is what the unfunded liability is for, they are tied to the rate of inflation, not an interest rate. Their benefit checks or Medicare payments for their services rise as fast as the dollar inflates and you don’t really gain like you do with a fixed interest loan.
That is why they say we are headed for a train wreck with social security and Medicare. It just gets worse for those programs the more people retire and the longer they live. On average, not just a few, Boomers are going to live to 100 that are now approaching retirement. Those who are just now retired will live on average to 92. The came up with this based on life expectancies for people over a certain age because childhood mortality rates no longer apply which drags the “average age” of all people down.
So that means, they are saying that many will draw from these programs longer than they paid into them making even a greater strain on them.
So whether wages are going down or not, we are losing buying power and our standard of living. We are unable to fund social security and Medicare under the current system and tax rates. We are unable to maintain or infrastructure and we are unable to compete in the emerging world market with our current trade polices and loss of sovereignty to WTO and other trade agreements where we gave up the ability to stop some abuses by nations like China and have to depend on a international body to decide what is “fair.”
That is why millions of people are moving their money out of the U.S. markets. Millions of teachers, factory workers, teachers, small business owners, etc. have mutual funds. The managers of those funds are all moving their clients money to more international mixes and in some cases almost totally out of the U.S. Many workers don’t even know what their fund managers are doing but trust them to protect their money. They are. They are moving the money out of the dollar and the U.S. equities more and more as the dollar continues to fall and more signs of our economy slowing appear at the same time other economies are soaring.
We don’t even have to have a recession, just slower growth. Those fund managers will move the money to where it grows faster. We have virtually created a self-fulfilling prophecy where the worse it gets the worse we make it. You can’t stop it without huge reforms in almost all segments of government but, you can make sure what you do have is protected from a potential collapse if you see this trend continue.
“I do think there is right and wrong in economics!”
And that’s why I don’t think your economic arguments hold water. They are influenced by what you “believe” to be right and wrong, and not necessarily by “what is”.
Kinda like Bush with pre-war intelligence.
To find the “right and wrong” of economic policy one only has to examine the history of the world. Look and see what works and doesn’t work. Every policy being used and being promoted is in use somewhere in the world. For example, about 30 nations have already or are privatizing Social Security. We can see which reforms work and don’t work.
Most nations in economic booms now, have lowered and simplified taxes on business.
Most socialist nations like France are either reforming or still in trouble.
Look at where manufacturing is growing and whether it is high tech or low skill manufacturing. Look at the nations improving infrastructure while ours isn’t even being maintained in many places.
Look at how heathcare is being handled and mishandled around the world. It is all out there. The world is a text book that shows us what is “right and wrong” economic policy.
Mr Konop,
Even you can see that I did not deny the assertion in the report.
Even you can see that I simply added some additional information, from a reliable (and cited) source.
You can see that, can’t you?
.
captain_menace nailed it: faith-based economics isn’t economics.
David
You deny the problem of the Middle Class getting sold out!
Example
Slave labor is wrong!
Stealing is wrong!
Do you get the point!
Jan
I would say savings rate and wages are the two best indicators of a long term healthy economy.
Yes. In China, making $1 – $2 an hour (the much publicized 29 cent wage is the rural wage) while 4 or 5 times the buying power is still small and yet they save 40%.
We are at a negative saving rate. Many were counting on home value to be their “savings” and now many owe more than the house is worth or they have even borrowed the equity.
Why is saving so important? Simple, it lets you minimize booms by not spending as much as a society (government reduces debt during a boom as most nations are now doing in this world boom) and then during a down turn you can continue to spend (not government) until the economy picks up.
Every family needs both long and short term savings. The home can be part of the long term “investing” for retirement but at least several months savings for household and living expenses should be one of the first goals after leaving school and entering the work force.
The spending in a downturn, when it comes from government, often leads to “government dependent jobs.” In other words, when the economy recovers, jobs “created” by government spending either have to continue or you start raising unemployment by laying them off to re-introduce them into the private sector businesses not dependent on government spending.
We have created a situation where we have a downturn or recession every time we start trying to balance the budget.
Quote:
We are told we must balance the budget. Look at the record and find out what happens when we do. Shortly after each balanced budget we had a recession. Check the record. Notice the many years between numbers two and four. No surpluses and no recessions until the surplus in 1969. By December, 1969 number three started. No one has dared to balance the budget since.
The large deficit in 71 and 72 got the economy going again. The deficit was reduced in 73 but before the budget could be balanced , number four started November 1, 1973. The pattern was repeated with numbers five and six.
We had number four when the deficit was reduced to about $5 billion, number five at about $40 billion, and number six at about $70 billion. Recessions five and six were so close, because the deficit in 81 was too small to keep the recovery going. Just look at the huge deficits required to end number six.
Since 1985, many items have been taken ‘Off Budget’ to hide the true size of the deficit.
Note the large reduction from 86 to 87. Could this be the reason for the October 1987 market crash? Economist predicted a depression within six months. Why were they wrong? The 88 and 89 debt increase figures tell us the answer.
The government borrowed enough to stimulate the economy out of the predicted depression.
http://www.wealthmoney.org/budget.html
========================
That article by Money Talk has a chart that gives you a visual image of what they are talking about.
If you look at the CPI chart, and debt, from 1913 on (IRS and Fed Reserve act year and when we stopped appointing Senators and started electing them), we see them all now going parabolic. Since both inflation and taxes to pay interest on debt, takes away from buying power, real wages are going down even faster than any drop in wages or even if you are making more, you can’t buy as much if your wage is only going up as fast as “reported inflation.”
That is why we are starting to move down the per capita wealth chart that is based on “purchasing power parity (PPP).
quote:
1 Bermuda $69,900
2 Luxembourg $68,800
3 Equatorial Guinea $50,200
4 United Arab Emirates $49,700
5 Norway $47,800
6 Guernsey $44,600
7 Cayman Islands $43,800
8 Ireland $43,600
9 United States $43,500
http://www.photius.com/rankings/economy/gdp_per_capita_2007_0.html
===================
Yes, there are good reasons for some of them to have moved ahead that we can call “unique” to a small nation’s special make up.
But, Ireland did it with manufacturing and exporting and tax reform. They proved that you can take a nation with 120% debt to GDP and not only get rid of the debt but move the people in per capita wealth up to that of the U.S.
The tax on Irish workers is high. 20%. And I believe they start paying at a lower wage then we do. However, they were making 1/2 our wage and 20% hurt then but now with 300% more wages, 20% isn’t felt nearly as much.
When a low wage worker had $5 an hour after tax wage it did hurt but when you moved up to $15 after tax wages, that tax became a lot less noticeable.
I don’t believe, however, the good times will last in Ireland. People there, like here, will start demanding more of their government and ruin a good thing. Also, the EU is demanding Ireland end its low taxes because they say it isn’t fair to the high tax nations who have to compete with Ireland.
Quote:
Friday, May 4, 2007 ~ 12:08 p.m., Dan Mitchell Wrote:
Tax Harmonization Fight Heats up in Brussels. A proposal to harmonize the definition of corporate taxable income is triggering heated debate at the European Commission. High-tax nations largely support the plan since it is a way of hindering tax competition – particularly if a harmonized corporate tax base is an interim step to a harmonized corporate tax rate. Led by Ireland, a number of nations are resisting this misguided scheme.
http://www.freedomandprosperity.org/blog/blog.shtml
=====================
GDP rose from about $5.465 trillion in 1992 to $13.2 trillion now or 140% higher. Do your wages reflect that progress.
http://www.theodora.com/wfb/1992/rankings/gdp_gnp_million_1.html
The huge growth in population due to immigration (illegal?) has to be a factor too. The huge rise in GDP isn’t reflected in wages but may be in population when illegal immigration is included.
For 1992, the ave. mfg. wage was $12.49 (ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/special.requests/ForeignLabor/ichccsuppt07.txt)
For 2005, $18.32 or 47% higher.
Look at a chart of inflation growth and see if wages are keeping up.
As John stated, look at trends. The other nations are going up and we are going down and while still ahead, for how long with those trends. Ireland passed us in 2004 and are increasing the gap in wages.
Jan,
David that is check mate from Jan!
Great post Jan!
Captain, post #16.
I agree with you on the major entitlement programs that are going to cause trouble pretty quick.
Social security to me is not an entitlement program, especially if you have paid into all your working life. It is a forced savings plan that the government has robbed, as I know you know.
It is one thing to take my money via taxes to help the people who truly need help, but to help generations of people on welfare, or fund pork programs, or basically redistribute wealth is where I have a problem.
As far as healthcare, I had an Uncle who died this past year. Years after abusing his body and abusing our healthcare and welfare system, he found himself in the hospital being kept alive by the healthcare system. Probably cost over $1M to keep him alive for about six months when there was no hope of him recovering. What a waste of money for someone who most likely put very little money into.
The more the government grows, the less efficient they get.
I’m not sure what I’ve written makes you think I’ve artificial assumptions on entitlement programs.
I also agree with your last paragraph of this posting.
I do agree with John that slave labor is wrong as well as monopolies and industries in collusions of price setting.
I disagree on the point of illegals taking jobs away from American from the perspective they are willing to work cheaper, which is competition, global at that since there are many other countries that have people willing to make less than people in the US doing the same job. I say that when I myself is in an industry that has jobs going overseas.
Jan Paul, I agree with you on taxes and government regulations being to complex and actually costing you and I money. I hear the train, but I don’t have to get off the tracks because it will wreck before it gets to me. I really like you stated in post #31.
Bottom line, while I’ve never been hired by a poor person, the rich are getting richer, the middle class is getting squeezed, and the poor think the government should take care of them, which is at the expense of the middle class.
John, people don’t save anymore because of the “I want something I can’t afford, now” mentality. Easy credit has displaced wages, and oh, I think I hear that train – but don’t worry.
Jan, great post! What do you do for a living?
# preussow Says:
May 28th, 2007 at 1:50 pm
What do you do for a living?
=========================
I am a retired jack of all trades. Raised on a small farm, I was a jerk in college (which I didn’t finish until in my 40’s) and went off the deep end until one night on a one person pity party, driving around alone, I realized I had to straighten up or end up in prison. I went in the Navy during Vietnam, started reading the Bible and learned a trade, electrician and running a 25 ton portal crane on a floating dry dock for subs in Spain.
After 6 years on subs and sub support craft, I left the Navy, restored my relationship with my parents whom I had treated like dirt, and started working any job I thought I’d like and the Lord led me to. As a kid I had worked with migrants, drove tractor, packed fruit, and did other physical work and liked working (but still was a jerk).
I started out after the service driving tractor trailers hauling apples. Then moved to Mo. doing home remodeling (plumbing and electrical and carpenter) for an Uncle, installed alarm systems (120 degree attics turned me off after a while) and then became an installation mgr. for Westinghouse, then farmed 8,000 acres for the U. of Mo.’s experimental farm in Weldon Springs. It was there that a sheriff made me a deputy to handle trespassing problems and I started riding with deputies to learn how to keep me from making a mistake and getting shot or sued.
They sold the farm and I went into police work full time becoming the head of the detective bureau in Wentzville, Mo. Then GM asked me to go to work for them in security and I did that, gave about a dozen lectures for the training department as we moved to team concept and then production supervision. When that got boring, (usual reason for job change) I bought an very small RV park for seniors in the mountains of Arizona and after 11 years, retired and now am taking it easy.
However, during all jobs, I kept reading, saving and investing which allowed me to retire. I use the “Investor Business Daily,” as a guide in how to read the market trends and manage my own securities portfolio. In other words, I put my money in the things I believe are going on and so far that has been rewarding.
I see my buying power, per dollar, going down so, I have to make more dollars and do that with my investments. It is why I am so interested in world political trends. I make money knowing what is going on in Asia, Europe, Africa, South America, Canada and the U.S. While not nearly as knowledgeable as the economists, I do know enough to listen to them, compare what they say with reality and each other and their track record.
Jan, I really appreciate your honest reply.
This current job I’m on is the longest I’ve ever been on which is more than 3 years.
Jobs get boring and I tend to wear out my welcome. Within 3 years, I start speaking out about what I see is wrong with the way things are done.
I find your comments, backed by facts and the sources very interesting and informative.
Thanks.
I’d like to talk to you more on investments. If your willing, email me at bellsouth.net.
Thanks for your open and honest response to my question.
I said,
“Mr Konop,
Even you can see that I did not deny the assertion in the report.
Even you can see that I simply added some additional information, from a reliable (and cited) source.
You can see that, can’t you?”
And the response was . . .
“David
You deny the problem of the Middle Class getting sold out!”
and,
“Example
Slave labor is wrong!
Stealing is wrong!
Do you get the point!”
and,
“David that is check mate from Jan!”
= = = = = = = = =
Mr Konop, what in the world are you on about?
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[...] In truth the purpose of his immigration and trade votes is to drive down wages on behalf of his corporate campaign donors. [...]