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	<title>Comments on: Republicans telling lies 11/30/06</title>
	<link>http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/republicans-telling-lies-113006</link>
	<description>Control Congress is a multi-partisan, issue-oriented political forum that brings together the Left, Right, and everyone in between.</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 11:21:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/republicans-telling-lies-113006#comment-5606</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Dec 2006 20:30:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/republicans-telling-lies-113006#comment-5606</guid>
		<description>I guess you're assuming that illegals will show up for court at the same rate as white Americans?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess you&#8217;re assuming that illegals will show up for court at the same rate as white Americans?</p>
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		<title>By: Mad Dog</title>
		<link>http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/republicans-telling-lies-113006#comment-5600</link>
		<dc:creator>Mad Dog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Dec 2006 15:38:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/republicans-telling-lies-113006#comment-5600</guid>
		<description>Bill,

Ah, Bill!

I must point out that we were not looking at suspects. 

We were looking at first time offenders. They had admitted guilt and been deferred to a court monitored treatment program. 

So, in retrospect, the study was more likely to find a bias toward people who trusted the system to work.

So comparing them to the jury pool sort of makes sense.

These people were in the justice system for the first time. Had agreed to treatment instead of jail. If treatment failed, or they failed to meet the court mandated 'rules', sentence was imposed.

I saw several white males and one female have mandatory drug sentences imposed because they failed a urine test.

The urine test was mandatory and weekly. Finding a job was mandatory. Paying for the treatment and the court services were mandatory. And, some other conditions.

So all these people were felons, convicted, and the sentence already determined. They could be selected for the treatment program IF they were first timers in the justice system.

Any failure on their part and they went to jail. No further steps in criminal justice. They had either confessed or been convicted in a trial.

So no illegals could have been in the program. No one with a prior conviction could be in the program. Any violation of law triggered their ejection from the program. Which meant immediately going to jail.

So it wasn't a measure of criminality. It was a measure of drug use among 'normal law abiding citizens.'

We were correct to compare those people to the jury pool.

Based on my part in the study, white people were more likely to use drugs than other ethnic groups.

(It's a summary that doesn't disclosure the faults of the methodology) All methods have faults, including the natural bias of the people doing the study etc etc etc</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill,</p>
<p>Ah, Bill!</p>
<p>I must point out that we were not looking at suspects. </p>
<p>We were looking at first time offenders. They had admitted guilt and been deferred to a court monitored treatment program. </p>
<p>So, in retrospect, the study was more likely to find a bias toward people who trusted the system to work.</p>
<p>So comparing them to the jury pool sort of makes sense.</p>
<p>These people were in the justice system for the first time. Had agreed to treatment instead of jail. If treatment failed, or they failed to meet the court mandated &#8216;rules&#8217;, sentence was imposed.</p>
<p>I saw several white males and one female have mandatory drug sentences imposed because they failed a urine test.</p>
<p>The urine test was mandatory and weekly. Finding a job was mandatory. Paying for the treatment and the court services were mandatory. And, some other conditions.</p>
<p>So all these people were felons, convicted, and the sentence already determined. They could be selected for the treatment program IF they were first timers in the justice system.</p>
<p>Any failure on their part and they went to jail. No further steps in criminal justice. They had either confessed or been convicted in a trial.</p>
<p>So no illegals could have been in the program. No one with a prior conviction could be in the program. Any violation of law triggered their ejection from the program. Which meant immediately going to jail.</p>
<p>So it wasn&#8217;t a measure of criminality. It was a measure of drug use among &#8216;normal law abiding citizens.&#8217;</p>
<p>We were correct to compare those people to the jury pool.</p>
<p>Based on my part in the study, white people were more likely to use drugs than other ethnic groups.</p>
<p>(It&#8217;s a summary that doesn&#8217;t disclosure the faults of the methodology) All methods have faults, including the natural bias of the people doing the study etc etc etc</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/republicans-telling-lies-113006#comment-5589</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Dec 2006 13:49:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/republicans-telling-lies-113006#comment-5589</guid>
		<description>These are just possibilities, not facts mind you, but another thing--overall criminality will increase in a community where supply for a given skillset exceeds demand.  For example the market for non-English speaking leaf blowers vs. say, bloggers.  The dynamics change when the former start to outnumber the latter, as in some Western communities.  Mad Dog, this is a better compairison than jurors vs. suspects in Hall County.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These are just possibilities, not facts mind you, but another thing&#8211;overall criminality will increase in a community where supply for a given skillset exceeds demand.  For example the market for non-English speaking leaf blowers vs. say, bloggers.  The dynamics change when the former start to outnumber the latter, as in some Western communities.  Mad Dog, this is a better compairison than jurors vs. suspects in Hall County.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/republicans-telling-lies-113006#comment-5588</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Dec 2006 13:24:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/republicans-telling-lies-113006#comment-5588</guid>
		<description>Al
I read the article.  Too bad there's not a spot for comments. I didn't see anything to refute the stats.  The overall decline in murders can be easily attributed to the increases in prison capacity since '91 due in part to privatization of prisons.  The increasing percentage of illegals as part of the criminal population would be a no-brainer since we don't exactly check criminal records at the Rio Grande.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Al<br />
I read the article.  Too bad there&#8217;s not a spot for comments. I didn&#8217;t see anything to refute the stats.  The overall decline in murders can be easily attributed to the increases in prison capacity since &#8216;91 due in part to privatization of prisons.  The increasing percentage of illegals as part of the criminal population would be a no-brainer since we don&#8217;t exactly check criminal records at the Rio Grande.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/republicans-telling-lies-113006#comment-5587</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Dec 2006 13:08:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/republicans-telling-lies-113006#comment-5587</guid>
		<description>Al
I believe you were the first on this thread to bring up Barney Frank and Ted Kennedy.  So I wouldn't get too upset if people get "off subject".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Al<br />
I believe you were the first on this thread to bring up Barney Frank and Ted Kennedy.  So I wouldn&#8217;t get too upset if people get &#8220;off subject&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Al Swearengen</title>
		<link>http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/republicans-telling-lies-113006#comment-5547</link>
		<dc:creator>Al Swearengen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Dec 2006 23:42:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/republicans-telling-lies-113006#comment-5547</guid>
		<description>Lies are my style???  Point out a single one of them eeevil.  

Pot calling the kettle black.  Say hi to snerdley for me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lies are my style???  Point out a single one of them eeevil.  </p>
<p>Pot calling the kettle black.  Say hi to snerdley for me.</p>
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		<title>By: eeevil conservative</title>
		<link>http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/republicans-telling-lies-113006#comment-5544</link>
		<dc:creator>eeevil conservative</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Dec 2006 23:35:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/republicans-telling-lies-113006#comment-5544</guid>
		<description>I hope makes a run for President in '08!

Poor Al hates reality....lies are his style...

we all know that the illegal invaders are all law abiding victims of the angry white man....just as the Katrina survivors...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope makes a run for President in &#8216;08!</p>
<p>Poor Al hates reality&#8230;.lies are his style&#8230;</p>
<p>we all know that the illegal invaders are all law abiding victims of the angry white man&#8230;.just as the Katrina survivors&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: JohnKonop</title>
		<link>http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/republicans-telling-lies-113006#comment-5533</link>
		<dc:creator>JohnKonop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Dec 2006 21:55:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/republicans-telling-lies-113006#comment-5533</guid>
		<description>Mad Dog

BTW, Biden who favors tightening the U.S.-Mexico border with fences, said immigration is driven by money in low-wage Mexico.

Unless the political dynamics change in Mexico and U.S. employers who hire illegal immigrants are punished, illegal immigration won’t stop. “All the rest is window dressing,” he said. 

An even bigger problem are illegal drugs “coming up through corrupt Mexico,” he said. “People are driving across that border with tons, tons — hear me — tons of everything from byproducts for methamphetamines, to cocaine, to heroine.”</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mad Dog</p>
<p>BTW, Biden who favors tightening the U.S.-Mexico border with fences, said immigration is driven by money in low-wage Mexico.</p>
<p>Unless the political dynamics change in Mexico and U.S. employers who hire illegal immigrants are punished, illegal immigration won’t stop. “All the rest is window dressing,” he said. </p>
<p>An even bigger problem are illegal drugs “coming up through corrupt Mexico,” he said. “People are driving across that border with tons, tons — hear me — tons of everything from byproducts for methamphetamines, to cocaine, to heroine.”</p>
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		<title>By: JohnKonop</title>
		<link>http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/republicans-telling-lies-113006#comment-5532</link>
		<dc:creator>JohnKonop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Dec 2006 21:53:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/republicans-telling-lies-113006#comment-5532</guid>
		<description>Mad dog call the show and will debate the issue on Saturday.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mad dog call the show and will debate the issue on Saturday.</p>
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		<title>By: Mad Dog</title>
		<link>http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/republicans-telling-lies-113006#comment-5525</link>
		<dc:creator>Mad Dog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Dec 2006 21:27:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/republicans-telling-lies-113006#comment-5525</guid>
		<description>BTW, I did a social science internship with the Hall County District Attorneys Office.

We sampled demographics in drug cases and compared those to jury pools.

OUCH!

There were more white faces in the drug court than in the jury pool. And, the age group were about the same. Older. 

I'd have to dig up my notes as my paper was never published.

As I remember, the only abnormal observation was that men in drug court were more likely to have facial hair than men in the jury pool.

And, to make the sample representative, we only sampled first time offenders.

I was not the only observer, in case you're wondering. The study started in late 2003 and I was helping with it in 2004.

The professor suffered a series of severe strokes before the paper and the study could be published.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW, I did a social science internship with the Hall County District Attorneys Office.</p>
<p>We sampled demographics in drug cases and compared those to jury pools.</p>
<p>OUCH!</p>
<p>There were more white faces in the drug court than in the jury pool. And, the age group were about the same. Older. </p>
<p>I&#8217;d have to dig up my notes as my paper was never published.</p>
<p>As I remember, the only abnormal observation was that men in drug court were more likely to have facial hair than men in the jury pool.</p>
<p>And, to make the sample representative, we only sampled first time offenders.</p>
<p>I was not the only observer, in case you&#8217;re wondering. The study started in late 2003 and I was helping with it in 2004.</p>
<p>The professor suffered a series of severe strokes before the paper and the study could be published.</p>
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