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34 Responses to “We are not Leaving Iraq, The Model is Korea”

1. JohnKonop says:

   January 1, 2008 at 7:12 pm

   Iowa Veterans Want More Than Lip Service from Presidential Hopefuls

   For the veterans attending the Veterans’ Caucus Presidential Extravaganza earlier this month, the fighting didn’t end with their military service. Instead, they faced a new battleground upon discharge: their government.

   The event was intended to raise money for veterans and provide Democratic presidential candidates a forum to share their platforms for vets. Dodd was the only presidential candidate who spoke at the event; other candidates sent high-level representatives. The Aug. 13 forum was supposed to be nonpartisan, but Dodd quickly established a partisan tone, which the rest of the speakers emulated in a blistering critique of the Bush administration’s neglect of veterans.

   “I’ve spent four different occasions on the Senate floor just to get body armor for those serving in Iraq, only to be defeated every single time by the Republicans, who could not come up with the votes to support the body armor or compensate the families and communities who purchased body armor for their loved ones in Iraq and Afghanistan,” said Dodd, a National Guard veteran. “The Don Rumsfeld line, ‘You don’t get the Army you deserve, you get the Army you got,’ reflects this administration’s attitude toward our young people, which they placed in difficult situations without even the most basic protection. This is deeply disturbing to me, and when I hear comments about how much they care and compare this with the actions of this administration, these words ring hollow.”

   A number of veterans at the forum said they have grown tired of politicians paying lip service without ever producing results. They also feel the media have neglected their concerns. Joe Stutler, an Army veteran from Cedar Rapids, said he was looking for two things: honor and respect. “All the benefits in the world are available and possible, but not until Americans realize that without veterans, there is no America. Somebody has to defend us; we’re called and we go. There should be some honor and respect in that,” Stutler said in response to former Iowa Gov. Tom Vilsack’s solicitation for veteran concerns. Vilsack was speaking on behalf of Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y.

   “If Americans began honoring and respecting that service, there would be no talk of a draft, because people would be fighting to get in instead of clamoring around in an RV around the green zone in Iowa thinking that’s a patriotic duty,” Stutler added, before setting his sights on the media or in this case, the absence of the media. “I don’t see a room full of media here, but I saw it for labor, GLBT and minorities. Where’s the respect from Americans for veterans?”

   Using this as his cue, Vilsack talked about Clinton’s new television ad about society’s “invisible” people, which had been released in Iowa earlier that day. “In essence, you are invisible, and one of the groups Clinton mentions in her new television ad is veterans. She really never believed that we would get to a point in this country where veterans are invisible, but that’s where we are at,” Vilsack said.

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2. Bill says:

   January 2, 2008 at 6:15 am

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzGlVbeeOLI
3. Bill says:

   January 2, 2008 at 6:48 am

   In the video from #2. I particularly like the quote from the viewer: “For $500 I’ll answer your question and for $750 I’ll tell you what you want to hear”.
4. bb says:

   January 2, 2008 at 3:45 pm

   John wrote, “The problem with the surge”….

   The only “problem” is for dems like you John who fought against the surge and now must eat crow. It worked, is working and will continue to work…deal with it…America is winning John…that used to be a good thing!
5. Joe Oliva says:

   January 2, 2008 at 4:34 pm

   Exactly correct bb.
6. JohnKonop says:

   January 2, 2008 at 4:47 pm

   I guess you guys know better than the experts and the people in Iraq?
7. Chris says:

   January 2, 2008 at 5:28 pm

   That’s excellent news Bart. Finally success. The Iraqis have about 13 months to wrap it up because the troops start coming home in Feb. 2009.
8. Aubrey says:

   January 2, 2008 at 5:32 pm

   “I guess you guys know better than the experts and the people in Iraq?”

   John, Iraqis are the most ignorant people, as a whole, that I’ve ever met. Not many are educated to any great length and they use violence as a first resort. Do you really pay an Iraqi opinion poll so much credence?
9. bb says:

   January 2, 2008 at 5:43 pm

   John,

   Why do you think your party has backed off its ‘get out of Iraq’ mantra…the surge is working!

   For once be happy John…America did the right thing by taking out Saddam on so many levels. The success of the surge will give the government over there a chance to stabilize…something that took over 100 years to accomplish here in America.
10. JohnKonop says:

    January 2, 2008 at 5:49 pm

    Bart,

    When are the troops coming home?
11. Bill says:

    January 2, 2008 at 5:51 pm

    Aubrey
    So I take it you don’t support “self determination” or “representative government” for Iraq?
12. JohnKonop says:

    January 2, 2008 at 5:53 pm

    Aubrey

    They are the people who have to run the Country for this to worK! Unless you think we will be in Iraq for a very long time.
13. bb says:

    January 2, 2008 at 6:02 pm

    John,

    When the Commander in Chief orders them home.
14. SgtMac says:

    January 2, 2008 at 6:43 pm

    Bart/Joe/Aubrey

    BRAVO!

    John

    Why not simply admit the surge is working beyond everybody’s expectations? Even your leftist friends at the NY Slimes have pushed the good news further and further back in the daily BDS his pieces.

    Mea culpa John, mea culpa!
15. JohnKonop says:

    January 2, 2008 at 6:59 pm

    Why is it working if Iraq is not getting it together? Mac how long will we be in Iraq?
16. bb says:

    January 2, 2008 at 8:38 pm

    John,

    How long did it take to finally bring all sides together in our own country?

    We committed to finish the mission in Iraq and that is exactly what should happen.

    Now why not celebrate the successes as much as you laud the setbacks?
17. David O'Rear says:

    January 2, 2008 at 8:57 pm

    What’s the body count for 2007? Not just US troops or allies, but BODIES.

    People, you know, even Iraqis.

    .

    Up? Down? Sideways?

    How else do you define “progress”?

    Anyone?
18. Bill says:

    January 3, 2008 at 6:41 am

    If the surge is working then the military draft should work wonders. And our veterans can all get paid in “Ameros” and come home to a nice cozy NORTH AMERICAN UNION!
19. bb says:

    January 3, 2008 at 9:15 am

    Bill…you left out ‘the sky is falling’…
20. JohnKonop says:

    January 3, 2008 at 12:40 pm

    Bart

    How long will the troops be in Iraq?
21. bb says:

    January 3, 2008 at 12:45 pm

    John,

    See #13, already answered that question.

    When will you honor the fine job done by our troops during 2007?
22. JohnKonop says:

    January 3, 2008 at 1:44 pm

    Bart

    We all honor the troops, but you have demonstrated you support having no plan for us ever getting out of Iraq!
23. Sgt Mac says:

    January 3, 2008 at 2:15 pm

    John

    The “plan” is to leave when the job is done.

    I realize you don’t like that answer, but there it is.

    Why can’t you give these folks the chance to accomplish what they set out to do? Would you prefer Iran take over the entire region? What would that do to security interests in the region or for that matter OUR security?
24. JohnKonop says:

    January 3, 2008 at 3:28 pm

    SgtMac

    We if the people in Iraq do not want to be one country?
25. bb says:

    January 3, 2008 at 3:33 pm

    Mac,

    John would love for Iran to take over the region…in fact, he probably sides with Ron Paul who just wants to ignore Iran since the NIE clearly shows they are no longer a threat…yeah right.

    John, You can say you honor the troops (so do all your counterparts on the left), but your words ring hollow compared with your many negative postings on this site.

    The plan is simple John…achieve stated goals, then leave. We are closer today than we were at this time last year and given a fair shot, we will finish the job soon. I’ll leave the planning and execution to those qualified for that task such as General Patreus.
26. JohnKonop says:

    January 3, 2008 at 3:49 pm

    Bart

    Do you think CATO hates the troops?

    Do you think William F Buckley hates the troops?

    Do you think General Patreus hates the troops?

    General Patreus has made the same point that in Iraq it is political problem not a military one!
27. JohnKonop says:

    January 3, 2008 at 3:55 pm

    Bart

    Bart

    The truth is I was for local rule which is why violence is down. The difference between us is I am realistic about the future of Iraq unlike you and Mac!

    A Conservative Plan for Iraq

    By John Konop

    Anyone who questions the lack of a realistic and comprehensive Iraq strategy is labeled a friend of fascism by the Republican leadership. House Majority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) recently said, “I wonder if [Democrats] are more interested in protecting the terrorists than protecting the American people.” Republicans are paralyzed with the fear of being thought ineffective on national security and the war.

    Meanwhile, the Democratic leadership cannot seem to accept that—regardless of how we got there—we are in Iraq. They have not made a convincing case that an arbitrary phased or date-certain troop withdrawal is in the best long-term interest of the United States. Rather, they seem to think that withdrawal will undo the decision to have gone to war. Rubbing President Bush’s nose in Iraq’s difficulties is also a priority.
    This political food fight is stifling the desperately needed public discussion about a meaningful resolution to the fire fight. Most Americans know Iraq is going badly. And they know the best path lies somewhere between “stay the course” and “get out now”.
    Some Truths
    1) Iraq is having a civil war between the Sunnis and Shiites. The Kurds will certainly join, if attacked. It may not look like a civil war, because they don’t have tanks, helicopters, and infantry; but they are fighting with what they have.
    2) Vast oil revenues are a significant factor behind the fighting. Yes, there are religious and cultural differences—but concerns about how the oil revenue will be split among the three groups make the problem worse.
    3) Most Iraqis support partitioning Iraq into Shiite, Sunni, and Kurdish regions. (Their current arrangement resulted from a pen stroke during the British occupation, not some organic alignment.)
    4) Most citizens of the Middle East who support groups that kill and terrorize civilians—such as Hezbollah, Hamas, or al Qaeda—in part because of their aggressive stance against Israel and the United States, but also because they provide much needed social services, such as building schools.

    5) Both Republican and Democratic administrations have spent decades doing business with the tyrants who run the Middle East in exchange for oil and cheap labor. This has been the one of the rallying calls of Bin Laden and Hezbollah—that we support tyrants who abuse people for profits. In fact, our latest trade deals with Oman and Jordan actually promote child and slave labor; it’s so bad the State Department had to issue warnings about rampant child trafficking in those countries.
    6) Iran is using the instability in Iraq to enhance its political stature in the region. Leaving Iraq without a government that can stand up to Iran would be very destabilizing to the region and the world.
    From the U.S. perspective, this is all mostly about energy. As things stand, a serious oil supply disruption would devastate our economy, threaten our security, and jeopardize our ability to provide for our children.
    New Directions
    Success in Iraq and the Middle East in general requires us to work in three areas simultaneously: (1) fostering a more stable Middle East region, including Iraq, (2) pursuing alternative sources of oil, and (3) developing alternatives to oil. To these ends we must:
    1) Insure that the oil revenues are fairly and transparently split among all three groups: Shiite, Sunni, and Kurds based on population.
    2) Allow each group to have a much stronger role in self government by creating three virtually-autonomous regions. Forcing a united Iraq down their throats is not working. Our military would then be there in support a solution that people want, rather than one they are resisting.
    3) Become a genuine force for positive change, thus denying extremist groups much of their leverage. Driving a fair two-state solution to the Israeli/Palestinian problem should be our first priority. We should also engage in projects that both help the average Middle Easterner and Americans, such as supporting schools that are an alternative to the ones that teach hate and recruit terrorists. We should also stop participating in trade deals that promote child and slave labor by insisting on deals that include livable wages and basic labor rights.
    4) Declare a Marshal Plan to end our Middle Eastern energy dependency with a compromise between exploring for new sources, reducing consumption, and developing of alternative energies. For example, we should re-establish normal relations with Cuba so we can beat China to Cuba’s off-shore oil. We should also redirect existing tax breaks for Big Oil into loan guarantees for alternative energy companies.
    Once we no longer need so much oil from the Middle East, we can begin winning over its people by using our oil purchases to reward positive and peaceful behavior from their leaders. This would ultimately reduce tensions and encourage prosperity in the region.
    We will have to live with the threat of Islamic radical terrorism forever; but these solutions are a start to reducing the threat. Both parties have to put politics aside and put together an honest and reasonable plan that the American understand.
28. David O'Rear says:

    January 3, 2008 at 7:33 pm

    Still no body ‘07 count ?
    Not even a guesstimate?

    .

    Korea model: has anyone here besides me ever even been to Korea, let alone to the DMZ?

    We’re talking 50+ years of US military participation — and casualties — in that particular “model.”

    .
29. JohnKonop says:

    January 3, 2008 at 7:59 pm

    DOR

    What is your solution for Iraq?
30. captain_menace says:

    January 3, 2008 at 10:28 pm

    “John, Iraqis are the most ignorant people”

    Aubrey, I guess you’ve never seen the documentary “Jesus Camp“.
31. David O'Rear says:

    January 4, 2008 at 1:47 am

    My solution to all future Iraqs is not to let traitors get their hands on the levers of power.

    .

    As for this particular problem, we broke it so we have to fix it.

    .

    The place to start is by rediscovering the art of diplomacy, because we will need our NATO allies to put boots on the ground. Our own, because of our traitorous leadership, are merely targets. We, America, are the problem
32. bb says:

    January 4, 2008 at 10:50 am

    John,

    Where in #27 do you call for ‘local control’?

    Nobody denies there needs to be political reform and solutions. But you can’t have political reform unless the country is secured and the surge is providing that as planned.
33. JohnKonop says:

    January 4, 2008 at 11:55 am

    Bart

    Most Iraqis support partitioning Iraq into Shiite, Sunni, and Kurdish regions. (Their current arrangement resulted from a pen stroke during the British occupation, not some organic alignment.)
34. David O'Rear says:

    January 6, 2008 at 8:35 pm

    Still no body count.

    I guess that means we’re still losing, because otherwise bb would have been all over me on that one.

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