You can’t say that?
Do you think it is true that while in many countries citizens can have a candid dialogue about preserving national identity, but we cannot? And if you try to in our country, and you’re labeled an exclusionary bigot. Did the defeat of the immigration bill send a signal that we can have the dialogue in the U.S. without name calling?
By Jonah Goldberg
USATODAY-Historians may well look back on last week’s defeat of the immigration bill as a watershed moment. It was, for good or ill, a milestone in America’s transformation into a “normal” country. Normal countries have arguments about their national identity and immigration’s effect on it. In normal countries, it’s not illegitimate to suggest that too many immigrants, or too many immigrants of a specific origin, may upset the social peace or do damage to the national culture. In America, however, to raise such concerns is to open yourself to charges of racism, bigotry, nativism and all-around hate.
I can certainly attest to the barbs that come my way when I try to honestly discuss the racial aspects of human nature. Here’s a good article on the subject by Steve Sailer. It’s posted on Vdare, which is one excellent web site, for those not familiar.
http://vdare.com/sailer/070701_diversity.htm
We have no “national identity”. National identities evolve over hundreds of years. Look at Europe, for example, hundreds of years ago they were different than they are now. Before Columbus discovered the new world, Italian culture was very similar to the French. Italian culture has become what it is now over the last few hundred years.
caroline
Are they not having problems with Muslims?
Caroline, you really do need to spend some time looking at our history. We most certainly do have a national identity, though the “blenders” are trying to remove it all as quickly as possible! There will be nothing left but multicultural strip malls when it’s all over unless we wake up! And the squatting third worlders will be at each other’s throats, literally and figuratively. Caucasian peoples will need to find another homeland that is habitable, not hostile, to them. Look at South Africa if you want to peek at our future!
Caroline,
We don’t have a national identity.
Texas thinks it’s a Nation, even flies the Texas state flag in a position ahead of “Old Glory.”
The SOUTH continues to refight and WIN the War of Northern Agression.
The Midwest Farmers Daughter keeps turning up cable TV as the newest skin talent.
No one understands poor Paris Hilton.
Hollywood is just like Pluto, not quite a planet and not really an asteroid.
Only one man in the WWF has a belt.
Everyone in boxing has a belt, including Evander Holyfield who wants a couple more.
When traveling abroad, most “Americans” claim to be from Canada.
But, the John Konop litmus test?
“Are they NOT having problems with MUSLIMS?”
The true test of national identity.
If you’re not having problems with the Muslims, you’re not doing the national identity thing the Right way.
Mad Dog
Caroline
We do have a national identity which includes our unique history AND the whole American pop culture. It’s different than any other country.
Oh yeah and I forgot to celebrate the defeat of the immigration bill.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=1PDIBTS_xDQ
Mad Dog,
The things you listed as refutations of a national identity are indeed part of our national identity. America is known as the “melting pot” and our regionalism that exists within a federalist structure is unique amongst all nations. Our pop culture emanates from that regionalism and our appreciation for an individualism that resides within the context of our national identity. I dare say Hollywood, Paris Hilton and the WWF are uniquely American entities. We have been the example to the world of merging cultures to form a “more perfect union”. The uprising of citizens against the immigration bill is an example of the democratic process at its best and demonstrates the importance Americans place on our national identity.
John,
Huh? What does that have to do with national identity? Why don’t you just come out and say that you want to exterminate an entire race and religion. It would make the discussion a lot clearer.
Hugh,
South Africa’s problems come from apartheid not from immigration.
hoads,
So you embrace illegal immigration which is a part of the melting part process?
You also embrace as your national identity the Mormonism’s multi-wife marraiges.
You therefore also embrace those liberals who “celebrate the death of each and every ‘American soldier in Iraq.’”
Clinton’s bj as a natural event for your cultural heritage…
Serial murderers…
Child porn…
Neo-Nazi groups, skinhead, White Supremists…
I’m glad you can balance all the contradictions into a simplistic and idealistic concept of normal identity.
How thick are your rose colored glasses?
Sort of a commentary on how not having an identity is having an identity, eh?
Where the concept of a national merging of regional identities really falters is race, age, and sex.
Uncle Sam is white, male, and old.
caroline
WOW you make my point! How anyone could write what you wrote shows the problem!
Okay John,
So you think that getting rid of everyone who isn’t “like you” is the solution? I’m glad we finally cleared up what you think the solution is.
John,
I’m glad we agree. Caroline HAS defined the problem. It’s YOU!
Mad Dog,
So we cannot lay claim to a national identity if debauchery exists within our borders? Our national identity is evidenced in our response to such debauchery which more or less relies on the rule of law and the moral foundation of our citizens of which both are under constant assault but does not demean our quest to strive for the highest standards that freedom affords.
So which is the national identity?
Debauchery or the failure of your morality?
Mad Dog,
It really is a shame that two Americans (I’m assuming you’re American) cannot agree that America even has a national identity much less what constitutes that national identity–as if a national identity is a liability rather than an asset. Read about Sweden’s “national identity” which has been hijacked by the “multiculturalists” and see if that is the future you would like to see in America.
hoads,
Isn’t it a shame that you ignore people?
I mean really, do you think America is a country or a continent?
It ain’t a country.
Calling yourself an ‘American’ because you were born in the United States simply ignores all the other people born on the continent.
Your narrowly defined ideas prevent discussion.
To you, one must be born in the USA to be an American, eh? Your desire for nativism betrays a lack of identity.
Are you uncomfortable with just being you? Are you so insecure that you must be part of something before you can be anything?
What a shame.
Mad Dog,
completely nonsensical